Ax on ATT - double barrel or induce? - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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Ax on ATT - double barrel or induce?

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12-04-2011 , 05:26 PM

Dane190

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 165

Poker Stars, $14.69 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.
Hero (SB): 510 (25.5 bb)
BB: 490 (24.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

Hero raises to 40, BB calls 20

Flop: (80) T

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets 40, BB calls 40

Turn: (160) 7

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?

I folded my first button. He limped his first button, chback KQ2r flop and fold to a 30 lead on A turn.

What are your thoughts about checking back vs. double barreling?

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12-04-2011 , 05:29 PM

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

you realize this is incredibly opponent dependent so there isnt really a right answer (in regards to inducing)

I would just bet and get value from GS/FD/ worse Ax

Last edited by dhcg86; 12-04-2011 at 05:37 PM.

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12-04-2011 , 05:36 PM

WesDone

adept

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 828

I would check back and bet the river like 100-120.

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12-04-2011 , 05:39 PM

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesDone

I would check back and bet the river like 100-120.

hoping to get called by?

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12-04-2011 , 06:00 PM

Insane_Steve

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 5,843

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhcg86

hoping to get called by?

This line (check turn/bet river) on boards like that gets called so wide it's unreal (mainly because it looks really full of ****).

As for this hand, this one is dependent on if he can actually call three streets with a lot of worse hands, if he can then bet both turn and river obv. Seems like it's early and you don't have many reads so betting and hoping for value from draws/7x that got picked up somehow or checking to make your hand look like trash in the hopes he'll call wide or bomb the river both seem fine here.

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12-04-2011 , 06:28 PM

Krumb Snatcha

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,051

Bet.

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12-04-2011 , 06:36 PM

yaqh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,745

Check.

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12-04-2011 , 06:39 PM

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

Sure you will get called wide, but you miss SO MUCH VALUE by not betting turn

pps/KJ/KQ/club draws, worse Ax, etc.

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12-04-2011 , 06:41 PM

u cnat spel

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,964

You could even check flop and go for 2 streets/bluffcatch from there.

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12-04-2011 , 06:46 PM

#10

Krumb Snatcha

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 3,051

You could check 2 streets and overbet river.

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12-04-2011 , 07:08 PM

#11

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

You can check 3 sts and bluff catch the rematch button

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12-04-2011 , 07:27 PM

#12

TiltALot

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 137

Check is fundamental mistake. We have best hand most of the times and villain isn't bluff checkreising decent bet on the turn so... If u want to check u will help villain.

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12-04-2011 , 07:30 PM

#13

WesDone

adept

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 828

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiltALot

Check is fundamental mistake. We have best hand most of the times and villain isn't bluff checkreising decent bet on the turn so... If u want to check u will help villain.

[ ] (fundamental) mistake;
[x] lost credibility by opening http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...known-1134409/.

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12-04-2011 , 07:35 PM

#14

genher

veteran

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,931

The turn doesn't change anything so IMO you are losing value by not betting the turn (and follwing up on the river).
Obv shove the river if it's a K

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12-04-2011 , 07:36 PM

#15

TiltALot

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by WesDone

[ ] (fundamental) mistake;
[x] lost credibility by opening http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...known-1134409/.

Different hand is different. So explain why it's correct to check the turn at 15$ level against unknown?

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12-04-2011 , 08:08 PM

#16

Melvis

newbie

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 26

I think at the Turn most value is coming from weaker Aces. Of course his Flop calling range is wider with PP, GSSD, AX . Villain seems to be more on the weak/passive side (limping a button, not stabbin KQx flop and folding to an Ace Turn), so I think there is a smaller chance that he will bluff the river with busted draws. Maybe he would check/call the River again with a PP if we check the Turn behind, but that advantage brings less value then betting the Turn for Value against worse Aces.

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12-04-2011 , 08:20 PM

#17

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melvis

this, although we get tons of value from KQ/KJ hands

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12-04-2011 , 08:56 PM

#18

ohly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,696

minbet flop imo

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12-05-2011 , 11:43 AM

#19

coffeeyay

See my staking thread

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,536

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohly

minbet flop imo

it does induce a wider range. if we take u cnat spel's advice seriously, then this shouldn't be bad, since we can min bet flop instead of checking (to give villain a chance to spazz c/r) and if he flats continue by trying to get 2 more streets against a wider range.

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12-05-2011 , 12:08 PM

#20

lovehatepoker

grinder

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 630

Quote:

Originally Posted by u cnat spel

You could even check flop and go for 2 streets/bluffcatch from there.

+1 against a fish readless this is most likely the optimal line,

as played bet turn dont chk, most fish look at there hand only so if they have called this flop they likely have a hand they will call the turn with, the real question is whether to go for 3 streets or not depending on river etc if its a card over a 9 its best to chk because you are chopping or he has u beat

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