$7 reg speed, facing overbet early in the session in 3bet pot with top pair - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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$7 reg speed, facing overbet early in the session in 3bet pot with top pair

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08-12-2011 , 06:02 AM

FinalCollision

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 26

Villain has -21% ROI over a sample of 86 games at the 2$level. Other than that no information. WWJD? I folded personally because I thought i might get better spots later in the tournament, since villain is a solid loser and is displaying hyper agression. If you choose to continue in the hand however, flat or shove ?

Poker Stars, $6.67 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #10264422

Hero (SB): 1,550 (77.5 bb)
BB: 1,450 (72.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J

Hero raises to 40, BB raises to 60, Hero calls 20

Flop: (120) J

(2 players)
BB bets 220, Hero folds

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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08-12-2011 , 07:15 AM

enprinte

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 4,095

Any stats on villian?

Either fold or shove imo.

Though I'm leaning towards a fold.

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08-12-2011 , 07:28 AM

Barbra Streisand

banned

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 2,741

I ship it in here

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08-12-2011 , 09:00 AM

toberg13

grinder

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 445

As long as you dont have a solid read with what kind of hands hes overbetting a flop like this I always fold. He might do this as a bluff but there are bad players who like to overbet big because they want to "over"protect their hand.

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08-13-2011 , 03:08 AM

Sol Reader

The Situation

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 9,380

Put him on misclick and ship imo.

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08-13-2011 , 12:34 PM

crymysyn

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 51

I don't really like these spots too. The funny thing is there's a lot of players who act like this at lower stakes. The 'logic' of this play (minreraising, then c-betting big) is of course flawed, but that is the reason it's hard to understand what the villain thinks. The only thing to really add is that I'd call him down, if I had a strong suspicion he's a brainless maniac: We're good too often to fold or scare him off. I think this line is so characteristic of non-thinking LAGs that you can find it early in Moshman's book as an example. Otherwise I'd probably fold readless at this stage.

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08-13-2011 , 12:40 PM

damanrico

journeyman

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 287

I would call the flop tbh. It sounds like a maniac play, so I'd give him the option barrel himself to death. In my experience the min3bet and overbet on the flop is a random hand, could be J5o could be AKo, but usually not a strong pocket pair. You gotta look it from their view, if they really had QQ+ then their min3bet is more a trap than a value raise or a protection raise. So why would they overbet the flop by that much if they wanted to trap you from the get-go? Today I watched a friend play at the $3.50 level (solid loser) and he had KK and also did the min3bet and checked a J62 flop or something like that to continue his 'trap'.

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08-13-2011 , 01:42 PM

FinalCollision

banned

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by damanrico

In this case, do I treat any card that falls on the turn as a blank ? Let's say K

pops on the turn and he fires again ? I kinda like the idea of shipping better. And IMO if you put in a 3bet, no matter what size, you are officially not trapping anymore.

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08-13-2011 , 02:23 PM

crymysyn

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 51

I think, damanrico essentially seconded my point. We're not calling for reevaluation here, we're essentially looking for a showdown no matter what. If I label a villain as a total maniac I only fold when 4 cards to a straight or a flush are on the board. But, as i said, if he overbets for the first time, we might want to corroborate our read and then let him hang himself. From my experience, a lot of the time even second pairs or underpairs are good, not to mention top pairs.

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08-13-2011 , 02:41 PM

#10

damanrico

journeyman

Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 287

Quote:

Originally Posted by FinalCollision

In this case, do I treat any card that falls on the turn as a blank ? Let's say K

pops on the turn and he fires again ? I kinda like the idea of shipping better. And IMO if you put in a 3bet, no matter what size, you are officially not trapping anymore.

Yes, I'll treat it as a blank. No matter which card falls on the turn, I'm stacking off. That's the reason why I don't shove the flop, so I can snap his bluff off. If you don't feel comfortable stacking off like that then either you're not sure enough of his maniac moves or you don't want to go for max value imo.

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