$7 J3s std shove against reg? - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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$7 J3s std shove against reg?

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11-30-2011 , 12:18 PM

LexerZz

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 185

We have 12.125 BB effectively, according to Chubukov,
we can shove this with 11.138727 BBs, but his calling range isn't perfect.
According to nash, we need 10.6 BB and it's a fold.

Limping is not an option here, he attacked my limps so far.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 7 Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (2 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB (t970)
Hero (SB) (t2030)

Hero's M: 16.92

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3

, J

Hero bets t2030 (All-In)

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11-30-2011 , 12:26 PM

chesslw

centurion

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 128

Estimate the ranges yourself based on reads. Look at the Nash calling ranges for 12bb and work from there. Is villain going to fold K5s, K4s, Q8s, J9s, J10o, or K7o? If not then your shove is Strictly worse than folding pre.

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11-30-2011 , 12:38 PM

LexerZz

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesslw

I'm not using Nash in this hand.
Nash only "works" if both players use it right?
But I think he will fold J9s and JTo here.

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11-30-2011 , 12:39 PM

ramdeebam

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 485

Regardless of his calling range, I fold here. I'd rather wait and shove Q,xs+

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11-30-2011 , 12:41 PM

Siriusz

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 379

Minraise.

Ps: nice read on the chubukov chart. Lots of profit.

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11-30-2011 , 01:27 PM

Spec

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 196

The Chubukov chart you're reading is in SB's, not BB's.

By default, I fold this. I'm looking for very high fold to steal percentage and fold to flop cbet numbers if I'm going to minraise/cbet this hand.

Last edited by Spec; 11-30-2011 at 01:43 PM.

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11-30-2011 , 01:39 PM

yaqh

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 5,745

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexerZz

I'm not using Nash in this hand.
Nash only "works" if both players use it right?
But I think he will fold J9s and JTo here.

what does "works" mean to you?

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11-30-2011 , 02:10 PM

LexerZz

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spec

Fail

If I do this /w pokerstove:

His calling range is roughly:
22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q8s+,JTs,A2o+,K6o+,QTo+

Spoiler:

64.7% 35.3%
66.7%*80+33.3%*(64.7%*-890+35.3%*+890)=
53.36 + .333*(-575.83+314.7)
53.36 + -86.95 = -33.6
-33.6 is better than folding -40

So if my ranges are correct, shove

Last edited by LexerZz; 11-30-2011 at 02:31 PM. Reason: calculation mistake

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11-30-2011 , 03:12 PM

stone75

adept

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 881

What about minraise/fold? Or was he flatting you so much?

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11-30-2011 , 03:16 PM

#10

LexerZz

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by stone75

What about minraise/fold? Or was he flatting you so much?

Meh, he was reshoving light.
I think he reshoves Ax, Kx, 22+, maybe some QJ type hands.

He was aggro against my limps,
so think we should push/fold here.

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11-30-2011 , 05:50 PM

#11

GT-Four

enthusiast

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 84

Just fold and wait a better hand.

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11-30-2011 , 05:55 PM

#12

SoulAndBone

adept

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 798

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexerZz

Meh, he was reshoving light.
I think he reshoves Ax, Kx, 22+, maybe some QJ type hands.

He was aggro against my limps,
so think we should push/fold here.

You really think reshoving Ax, Kx , 22+ QJ is reshoving light??

I think it's just standard. I would probably think on reshoving K2-K6o depending on how often villain minraises, but i think it's pretty much standard...

(i'm not being sarcasting, it's a real question btw)

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11-30-2011 , 07:09 PM

#13

ohly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,696

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

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11-30-2011 , 11:23 PM

#14

Pajak666

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 274

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohly

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

You mean that's the range he is calling us with?

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12-01-2011 , 01:53 AM

#15

_dave_

_Pooh_Bah_

Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,146

I think he means that's 49.9% of hands - If he's only reshoving Ax, Kx, 22+ and maybe QJ then a minraise/fold can be quite profitable.

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12-01-2011 , 02:00 AM

#16

pkratitsbest

veteran

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,035

does he shove over limps light? how about limp and stab? i looks like a trap if u rarely limp otb

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12-01-2011 , 03:23 AM

#17

ohly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,696

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pajak666

You mean that's the range he is calling us with?

that's the range he needs to CONTINUE with so that minraising CAN be unprofitable. i don't particularly like making a thin +EV shove when we haven't established a solid read on his calling range yet.

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12-01-2011 , 09:43 AM

#18

dennisf

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 69

hard to play against villian without some helpfull reads after a whole game in an almost break even decision. I would act on the assumption that villian calls 50% as well.

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12-01-2011 , 11:01 AM

#19

Orsulab3rt

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,306

I think mr/fold,shove,limp,fold
limp before fold just bcz it suited.

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12-01-2011 , 11:14 AM

#20

ohly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,696

the problem with this hand is that OP presents a play he made, gets criticized and then creates the exact environment in which it is better than any other option. not much to argue about then.

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12-01-2011 , 12:02 PM

#21

Deepak

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 2,649

i shove, ppl play way more tight then they should in a turbo endgame
but would also depend on gameflow and how he reacts/plays post vs minraising

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