Quote:
Originally Posted by 147_star
It's not a 'no' vote, it's simply not a vote. So it won't count against the trier, it just won't count for them either. Consider the fact that these guys are free-rolling from the group whilst "lone ranger" players are grinding against "connected" sit-list guys. That alone is already increasing the work load on the rest of the cartel. I can't see any justification for a "two-tiered cartel", and whilst EV requirements will negate the issue a bit, the fact still remains that being in a stable makes the scenario more luxurious for those in and trying to break in to a cartel.
The rules for the voting system are that you have to get yes votes from 50% + 1 of the division. Let's say there's 50 people in a division, so you need 26/50 votes to get in. With the current way discounts work, if someone has 10 discounts, they now need 21/40 votes to get in. If discounts worked the way you wanted them to they'd need 26/40 votes to get in. I'd agree that getting 21/40 yes votes is slightly easier than getting 26/50, but it's also obvious that getting 26/40 yes votes is going to be significantly harder than getting 26/50.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 147_star
You don't see an issue with the prospect of the advert "here, be my horse, you are already a decent percentage of the way in a cartel if you do so".
If you want to debate you can't just restate your own position, you also need to respond to the points made by the person who disagrees with you. You said that the current setup makes it easier for connected people trying to get into a cartel; i explained why i disagree with that; now you're restating that it's easier for connected people to get in. No, it's not. I've already told you why I disagree with that. I guess I'll try to explain again:
Not only is even having as much as 10 discounts (i don't think anyone has that many btw) only a slight advantage for getting in by votes, but getting in by votes itself is much more difficult than getting in by EV. I'm pretty sure that in the $60's division only 1 person ever got in by meeting the voting requirements (some people were voted in in other ways) and since the EV rules were introduced no one has gotten in by votes, instead they got in by EV. For all intents and purposes the voting system doesn't exist. Imagine that the entry requirements to some sort of club for athletes were to either lift some moderately heavy weight, OR, run 50 miles. But, for people who had connections, they had the choice of lifting that same moderately heavy weight, or running only 48 miles. Is someone with connections "already a decent percentage of the way into the club"? No, people would still all choose to lift the weight so it's a moot point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 147_star
In an ideal world, where you can't sit person A because of connections, you sit person B more to balance against that. I'm all for a cartel being the survival of the fittest so the group's elite will be sat less than the weakest, but this environment is a long way off from that utopia. Separate on skill, not on popularity. If I was a member within that cartel I'd want the "discount" to be changed at least and possibly an extra requirement that guys who have a lot of connections among triers have to make up extra sits elsewhere.
With the current setup where most triers sit 2nd i don't see how you're going to force a division member to play more triers if the triers aren't sitting them. If the triers don't want to play a certain division member, whether it's because that member is strong or because they're connected, then that division member isn't going to have to play that many triers. If a division member is weak but not getting sat by many triers because of connections then other division members can sit them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 147_star
If the connections are so large that 1) is an issue, then drop the # of votes required. Why would you make it easier for these connected individuals?? "You know person x, sure you are already a bit in." Or..."What, you don't know anybody? 50% for you I'm afraid!!"...luckily there are EV requirements now but as mentioned these still have issues.
This isn't just a $60s issue but how do you suppose one can address the "two tiered cartel" issue please and how you plan to make entry requirements and cartel membership fair and equal for all, irrelevant of who you know.
It is always 50%, you have to get 50% (+1) votes of whoever is elligible to vote for you. People with discounts just have fewer people who are elligible to vote for them. And like I said before no one gets in by votes atm anyways.
IMO you're making a mountain out of a molehill here.