nice

//solid first

this is very good to hear!

also, thanks for sitting down and working this out.

the aim of this all is just to let more skilled people in, to put pressure on 200$+ cartels.. can't believe you used the word "transparency", that's just ridiculous

Very good job by all the guys that came up with this, your efforts are really appreciated.

important to say that it's not last x games, but all games against group. for example 4k games with -5% ev followed by 4k games with -0.7% ev will not get you in 100s. and trying to fake graph will result in ban from every stake and everyone will sit/decline you 4lyfe, although i would assume nobody would actually try it, since it is extremely stupid.

Actually, faking graphs can potentially be a very big problem. It's not very hard to change a few HHs (and suddenly your EV is going up!).

Expecting triers to send their databases to someone else to independently verify graphs is a grey area and probably illegal.

And ofcourse software errors are still a very real possibility. I've seen it countless times; HEM and PT4, depending on versions, can yield wildly different EV graphs.

illegal? do you mean against stars TOS? my idea was using teamviewer, teamviewing guys screen from getting hands from stars, importing them into database, sending HHs to 2nd party and then verify them that way. also compare to SS just to make sure

I wouldn't want to send my HHs to someone else. Being expected to do so is where it get's grey.

Also, yes Stars TOS. The 2nd party has access to free datamining.

Not sure why it matters where you start, is that not what a confidence interval is for? The higher required EV ROIs are designed to account for the variance of the smaller sample size.

teamviewer on each other, showing the guy that we just import hands to generate graph, then teamviewing deleting everything, new database and raw hhs, and deleting DL link or how ever you sent the HHs in the first place.

perfect would be if the testing would be done by someone not even playing hypers, but i don't see why anyone would do that job willingly with no gain

There is no way players should be required to send other players their HHs

You battle the cartel for many thousands of games then you have to send them your HHs..

Thats ludicrous imo

Whats the easiest way to filter only the games played vs the 60s or 100s group? Lets say the cartel didn't do their job fast enough and 1% of all ur games are vs rec players. How to filter them out asap/easiest possible?

custom filters for pt4, i know someone made one and i think i have it, but i never tried making it myself. it's not super hard though

Yep we are aware of all this, and of course we aren't gonna ask someone to send us their database. It will most likely be done by having them run a report for division players for the sample. We can then ask everyone to verify the ev numbers against them match up with their db. If they don't it will obviously need further looking at. Whatever the details it will be fully within stars ToS without violating the rights of other players though.


Of course it matters. If it was a rolling game requirement then people would nearly always end up choosing a sample where they started on a heater. It would mean the agreed upon confidence intervals were meaningless since that wouldn't be the entrance criteria.

When it comes to checking graphs, I think the player who wants to get in can make a screenshot of a report that shows EVROI vs players in cartel he has played so far. Then cartel can randomly pick a few players and request graphs vs the player that is trying to get in. If they are not each others' inverse, the trier should be disqualified.

Just purge database on teamviewer and import HHs from stars, gg

$60’s
2300 games = -0.75% ev
3200 games = -1.00% ev
4800 games = -1.28% ev
6400 games = -1.43% ev
8000 games = -1.55% ev

A question for both groups, if lets say at 5.5k games i have -1,32% ev (just an approx) do i get in or do i need to get to the next milestone which is 6400 games and then check my ev

And sit4life on all his lobbies up to 15s to show faking is not being tolerated

and leave him be at 30s+

does anyone have the report? or how do i create it? i need to manually add to some name every cartel member?
also from the start it kinda sucks, i played very bad and played mostly vs the very good players, but since then i improved my game a lot and will not play the best...however i agree that u might just select the area where u are on a hotrun... maybe a good idea to select games when he not played for a month vs cartel... that would allow a person to back down and improve if he wants and learn from his mistakes

I think it will depend on the circumstances.
If someone is well known to all and shows a report where he/she is 1%+ above the criteria, I don't think we need to do a comprehensive a review.

However, in circumstances where a known poor player surprisingly qualifies, that player is going to be heavily audited - one simple preliminary check would be to look at that player's results and compare to the results from the division member's perspective.

The other point to make is that if a poor player somehow flukes it and makes the division or "cheats" to get there, it's not like they are going to be able to print money. There is going to be a massive line of sitlisters targeting that player!

Finally, as discussed previously, I agree that the consequences for cheating needs to be significant.

I mean everything to 15s, sorry for bad english

in pt4 player report, then filters, "edit existing expression filters", then this....



tourney_hand_player_statistics.id_player in (SELECT p.id_player from player p

where upper(p.player_name) in

('player1', 'player2' ))

I'd recommend that everyone gets 2 lifetime 'resets' to their sample.

There are lots of very good players nowadays who started out as total fish.

after 8k games, we will take always last 8k games