$6.25: middle pair facing donkbet line. Where can I find a fold? - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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$6.25: middle pair facing donkbet line. Where can I find a fold?

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10-20-2010 , 10:41 PM

Kvaughan

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,606

Full Tilt Poker $6 + $0.25 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t30/t60 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

Hero (BTN/SB): t1390 23.17 BBs
BB: t1610 26.83 BBs

Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is BTN/SB with 9

Hero raises to t120, BB calls t60

Flop: (t240) 9

(2 players)
BB bets t120, Hero calls t120

Turn: (t480) A

(2 players)
BB bets t180, Hero calls t180

River: (t840) 6

(2 players)
BB bets t180, Hero calls t180

This is villain's first donkbet. He's been calling 60% OOP and 3-betting 8%. Does anyone find a fold anywhere?

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10-20-2010 , 10:48 PM

JodySummer

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 35

I wouldn't fold anywhere here.

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10-20-2010 , 10:56 PM

borderline

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,356

um.. either raise or fold turn imo. (im going with fold)

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10-20-2010 , 11:10 PM

mela

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,228

I'd fold on the turn, giving him some credit esp. if this is his first donk bet after quite a while. There really aren't that many draws by the turn (hard to put him on two naked hearts) and this seems more like a weak Jx or A4 stuff. But it would help if you have some read about how villain plays his draws.

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10-20-2010 , 11:25 PM

newluck2k

adept

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,077

meh, it might be a leak but I think I call all streets but would like more reads like amnt of c/r'ing and overall sense of how he plays postflop.

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10-21-2010 , 01:03 AM

Doggg

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,121

This line from villian is jx alot.

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10-21-2010 , 03:29 AM

AlaskaForever

adept

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 808

When I played 6 and 11, I experimented shoving river here. They can find fold here pretty often. I mean when they bet so little on river. its usually is what its looks like. 9x, weak J.

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10-21-2010 , 12:55 PM

Kvaughan

veteran

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,606

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlaskaForever

When I played 6 and 11, I experimented shoving river here. They can find fold here pretty often. I mean when they bet so little on river. its usually is what its looks like. 9x, weak J.

huh. Intuitively, I don't expect a random to fold a J and maybe not even a 9 to a river shove here, but you've probably played a lot more than I have.

I agree that the line is 9x or a weak Jx a lot but it's Jx more often than 9x. In any case, I don't think it needs to be 9x often for this to be a call, right?

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Originally Posted by borderline

um.. either raise or fold turn imo. (im going with fold)

Can you explain what raising the turn accomplishes? Also, what are we raising to?

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10-21-2010 , 01:10 PM

borderline

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,356

raising to.. ~420, shoving river, getting villains to fold random Jacks.

also balancing my/your range when you have 94s/J9/J4s/A9/sets. although range usually isn't that important at 6s, but important to keep in mind when playing higher that sometimes you have to turn hands that have showdown value into bluffs.

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10-21-2010 , 03:53 PM

#10

dildonk

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 37

fold the river but I don't think callings a bad play, he's playing it pretty week so could well have a lower 9 and is giving you good odds to call

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10-22-2010 , 12:08 PM

#11

8Hazey8

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 466

I'd fold turn.

If this is a rare sign of OOP aggression I would fold to the turn bet, esp given that the A hasn't slowed him down he probably has a Jx or maybe even Ax [some ppl do randomly donk flop w/ Ax]. He may occasionally have draws or air but give him the credit here. If he has got you to fold a better hand fair play to him - if you call down atw in this spot, against described villain, you will be losing chips.

By river the only hand you beat is a weak 9 or air - do you really think villain is 3barrel bluffing or betting a 9 here given your reads? Sometimes maybe, but nowhere near a high enough percentage imo.

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10-22-2010 , 03:09 PM

#12

Kvaughan

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Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,606

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8Hazey8

He only needs to have air or a weaker 9 15% of the time on the river. I think he has it at least that often.

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10-22-2010 , 09:57 PM

#13

badboyboogie0

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,420

fold river
he has Jx, almost always. it's not 9x, it's too thin for most players. you should have specific reads to expect him to bet 9x, and you didn't mention any.

or turn your hand into a bluff and shove river.
(hopefully he's not the kind of player who bets smallish with the nuts, like AJ, but this again is about reads, and you should know that by 30/60 blinds)

(or you can call river if he's been very bluffy so far, obv)

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