Villain was a std Tag player, match have been pretty std soo far (10 hands in), this was his first 3bet. Decided to flat PF and get in on now broadway flops since I expect his 3bet range to be somewhat for value, but don't know if its better to simple get in and Flip vs he's calling range;
Should I ship PF or Flop?? How's my line??


Poker Stars $55.00+$2.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BB: t1480 29.60 BBs
Hero (BTN/SB): t1520 30.40 BBs

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is BTN/SB with 7 7
Hero raises to t100, BB raises to t270, Hero calls t170

Flop: (t540) 6 Q 2 (2 players)
BB bets t235, Hero calls t235

Turn: (t1010) A (2 players)
BB bets t975 all in, Hero folds

Confused on how this is 10 hands in at the 25/50.Staking off would be too light imo,given this is his first 3bet and the sizing,assuming it really is 25/50 not 10 hands in.

yeah, sorry, wasn't exacly 10 hands in, how's the line??

the call of the 3bet is lol bad.

shove or fold pre.

and the call on the flop is lol bad as well.

shove or fold post.

how are you ten hands in at 25/50...

villian times down on every hand.

ok ok, it was not only 10 HANDS in, jezzzzzzzz....but still he's first 3bet.

ty for the advice guys, I tend to get become too much of a station on those spots. Def a leak.

I kinda agree with borderline that pre is a shove or fold spot, probably shove because you're 30bb deep with 77 and who folds 77? If you had actual reads on villain then flatting could be fine but i guess you slept through the first two levels so we'd be totally in the dark postflop.

way it's played is very ugly,, I don't love preshove but it makes more sense than calling down only to fold.

Think about what you're doing, if you're calling with 7's you need to have a plan on future streets. And almost none of them should involved calling on flop, (maybe with a set...)

Agree w/this. And I lean strongly towards fold if that's his first 3bet. I mean that's a NUT range.

I play it the same

unless you're trolling, explain why please.

??

I think I would play it the same too Would perhaps shove the flop though.. anyways, Probably a leak I have.. I can at least explain my reasons, even though they are obviously wrong. I flat pre because A: I don't want to shove against his range and be flipping at best if called and B because I feel my hand is too strong to fold.. I would probably fold 6s and below.. perhaps 7s too, but it is borderline for me. So, I would call.. then he C bets, which he probably does with every hand in his range.. I just took a look at his bet sizing though.. it seems kinda weakish imo.. I would figure he'd bet aq, kk, aa, bigger.. 300ish... so a shove on the flop isn't that bad.. but I would probably wuzzed out and flatted to reevaluate turn.. the turn is obviously super ugly, so I fold. If turn had been a blank and he checks to me I'd probably bet it.. if turn had been a low I'd probably bet it near 100% of the time if checked to me.

kantor, turn is a 3

villain shoves. you?

I don't see a problem with villain's bet sizing on the flop because most of the time you have 0-9 outs versus him and he sets it up perfectly to shove any turn card.

If villain shoves turn, I fold.
Regarding villains bet sizing.. perhaps your right.. If you had aq, no dimond, would you bet that amount? I would bet 280-300 I think.. if my villain 88-jj, he'd probably ship it anyways, so I see no reason to bet that small in that particular spot.. but then again, if he has a really good hand, the bet of 235 sets up really neat for the villain to ship over his bet as well..
hmm, nah, nevermind what I've said.. 235 is actually a good bet.. 280-300 would probably scare away potential customers.. and perhaps make the villain less inclined to potentially shove over his bet.
If you were villain and had aj what would you have bet on the flop? Ak?

If I am villain and I am betting the flop, I am shoving the turn 100% of the time.

+1

The thing is, I think his 3betting range is pretty strong here indeed, but you get decent odds preflop and 77 is still a very good hand - I would prolly get it in on this flop or flat and if he shoves this turn its an easy fold. On a diamond I would call.

I still don't see enough itt to convince me that flatting pre is best, but idk, I'll think about it some more. I assume you're jamming 88?

EDIT: Whats a realistic 3betting range? imo the 3betting range here will pretty much=calling range with a few random folds. So like { 88+, AJs+, KJs+, QJs, AQo+, KQo }? Against that I guess I can see why we are flatting

Um, actually, I think OP himself didn't do a half bad job of explaining why what he did is okay.

We obviously don't have set odds pf, so can't call for those alone, but we can call if we're stacking off/continuing on 'safe' flops and set-mining.

And while 4betting pf is an option, it's okay with reads and history to judge that villain's 3bet here has a lot of (ATs+, AJo+, KJs+, 88+) in it, and little to no weaker/semi-bluff type stuff. Ergo we call pf rather than shove and reevaluate on the flop.

As for what to do on this flop, see what crimsonchin said in his last post.

So yeah, OP's actions seem reasonable under the circumstances, and a far cry from being "lol bad" or terribly misguided or whatever.

yeah, an ace is about the only thing that i'm not calling

i really want to add king.

I would def shove flop here

I think postflop is fine

sometimes I flat pre, sometimes I jam, sometimes I fold (lol)