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3barrel in bluff on dry board 3barrel in bluff on dry board

10-07-2020 , 02:14 PM
PokerStars Hand #219159009884: Tournament #3021729188, €9.20+€0.80 EUR Hold'em No Limit - Level III (20/40) [AAMS ID: M4F39115D31571QZ] - 2020/10/07 19:11:23 CET [2020/10/07 13:11:23 ET]
Table '3021729188 1' 3-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: SupeRagno (780 in chips)
Seat 3: pensodasolo (720 in chips)
pensodasolo: posts small blind 20
SupeRagno: posts big blind 40
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pensodasolo [8h 5d]
pensodasolo: calls 20
SupeRagno: checks
*** FLOP *** [2s Qd Ac]
SupeRagno: checks
pensodasolo: bets 40
SupeRagno: calls 40
*** TURN *** [2s Qd Ac] [9c]
SupeRagno: checks
pensodasolo: bets 110
SupeRagno: calls 110
*** RIVER *** [2s Qd Ac 9c] [Jh]
SupeRagno: checks
pensodasolo: bets 320

I definetely check some A preflop. what do you think of the whole line, what is the worst hand you'd call the river with?
bluffs should have some equity on perspective, so this is the first mistake I guess... but is this rule valid also for speedy formats like spins?

Last edited by pensodasolo; 10-07-2020 at 02:22 PM.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-07-2020 , 03:45 PM
Id barrel turn, but once they call, I give up river, especially this river
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-07-2020 , 03:52 PM
do you give up on this river because it may give many two pairs to oppo?
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-07-2020 , 06:04 PM
Because on the river they will have mostly Qx, Ax, also JT hit and in limp pots I dont expect many Qx folding, and also some people will call you with Jx just because they hit a pair otr.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-07-2020 , 07:38 PM
what about a shove on the river?
btw I think that JT folds on the turn.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-08-2020 , 03:46 AM
shove should be your only sizing here, if you think JT folds turn than I guess prob can jam river vs someone that tight, but than it makes river range very strong something like Ax, Qx, so it depends on how often they will fold Qx.

This barrel is not bad, Id just check river because people are already over folding turn, making their river range stronger, and im not sure they are folding enough on the river so Id just take already very +ev double barrell give up river line
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-08-2020 , 09:07 AM
I think it's nice to have equity when bluffing. E.g KJ, KT, JT, 45s or a backdoor flush draw. You could also turn some 2x into a bluff, blocking something like Q2. Blockers become more relevant as the bluffs go further.

This hand is kind of a random bluff combo, easy to bluff too much here if you choose from all kinds of air hands to bluff. Maybe bet it once on the flop, or if you think villain will overfold then maybe turn also.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-08-2020 , 01:32 PM
Yeah its nice to have some eq but on this board we can exploit BB by barreling basically 100% of our air.
BB is supposed to call most 2x if not all vs turn barrel, in practice people will overfold in this spot a lot so we should barrel all air, just that air with some eq will be more +ev than just pure bluff.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-08-2020 , 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by none888
Yeah its nice to have some eq but on this board we can exploit BB by barreling basically 100% of our air.
BB is supposed to call most 2x if not all vs turn barrel, in practice people will overfold in this spot a lot so we should barrel all air, just that air with some eq will be more +ev than just pure bluff.
Yes, you are correct and that is a very good point. Villain is also somewhat capped because of preflop, and you can exploit a lot of players by overbluffing.

I forgot when writing that, that the stars spins player pool is so big that you won't see (or remember) the same players very often so you can get away with a lot of overagressiveness anyway, also the 10€ pool has very few skilled players that can make good reads. For e.g higher stakes HU with small player pools it's a slightly different story.

And also it's easy to underbluff if you try to always only use hands that have equity on some dry board textures. You have to use complete air in many spots at least as single or double barrels (sometimes also triple), but it's tough to balance for humans.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-11-2020 , 03:31 AM
ma tu sei quello che ha vinto 50K in uno spin da 5?

no perchè mi sa che devi ridare indietro un bel po di EV, io se fossi in te non giocherei piu...

poi abbiamo giocato delle mani insieme e sinceramente bnon mi sei parso un granche...
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-14-2020 , 06:28 PM
Agree, barrel turn and give up river. However, I think barreling turn here as bluff may be too complex of a play given hero's range analysis ability atm (no offense) - could see this being extrapolated across many textures that are quite bad. Maybe better to just cbet/give up too often for now.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-14-2020 , 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieGreg
Agree, barrel turn and give up river. However, I think barreling turn here as bluff may be too complex of a play given hero's range analysis ability atm (no offense) - could see this being extrapolated across many textures that are quite bad. Maybe better to just cbet/give up too often for now.
I post hands to improve, I would appreciate if you indicated the spots you think were played bad.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-14-2020 , 08:27 PM
My perception from the hands I've reviewed is that you are currently learning the basic fundamentals of HU and 3-handed play (preflop ranges, early street sizings, pot odds, and maybe effective stacks). My perception of your game might be skewed because you are posting hands and not explaining your thought process almost at all (or very limited) - as others have said, you really should expand more. So for example, you limped T8s at 7.5-8bb in one thread and you didn't seem to be aware that the preflop decision point was wrong (were focused on turn). This is not just a decent mistake, but it's also very easy to fix in comparison to the hand in this thread. If you're limping T8s at that stack depth, then there are probably many other similar mistakes in very frequent preflop situations that would be very easy to fix. I would aim to fix those first. Maybe create a preflop range for some stack depths in an app and post it on here for analysis. I just don't think barreling this turn is basic fundamentals and it's kind of complicated and requires a decent amount of prerequisite understanding of the game to do correctly. I should have elaborated on this in my initial critique - apologies.

Last edited by HokieGreg; 10-14-2020 at 08:56 PM.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-14-2020 , 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieGreg
My perception from the hands I've reviewed is that you are currently learning the basic fundamentals of HU and 3-handed play (preflop ranges, early street sizings, pot odds, and maybe effective stacks). My perception of your game might be skewed because you are posting hands and not explaining your thought process almost at all (or very limited) - as others have said, you really should expand more. So for example, you limped T8s at 7.5-8bb in one thread and you didn't seem to be aware that the preflop decision point was wrong (were focused on turn). This is not just a decent mistake, but it's also very easy to fix in comparison to the hand in this thread. If you're limping T8s at that stack depth, then there are probably many other similar mistakes in very frequent preflop situations that would be very easy to fix. I would aim to fix those first. Maybe create a preflop range for some stack depths in an app and post it on here for analysis. I just don't think barreling this turn is basic fundamentals and it's kind of complicated and requires a decent amount of prerequisite understanding of the game to do correctly. I should have elaborated on this in my initial critique - apologies.
I can't say much as per contract. But I was in a stable and follow the preflop ranges that I learnt there ( btw I don't limp with that hand against everyone)

Last edited by pensodasolo; 10-14-2020 at 09:55 PM.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-14-2020 , 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pensodasolo
I can't say much as per contract. But I was in a stable and follow the preflop ranges that I learnt there ( btw I don't limp with that hand against everyone)
Cool. So explaining why you are deviating to limping T8s would be really useful in the initial post.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-15-2020 , 03:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieGreg
Cool. So explaining why you are deviating to limping T8s would be really useful in the initial post.
I don't think so, the question was about the turn, so I expected the hand to be commented as played.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-15-2020 , 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pensodasolo
I don't think so, the question was about the turn, so I expected the hand to be commented as played.
This thought process will hold you back. Consider it killing two birds with one stone when you get advice on multiple streets of a hand. If fact, consider it a blessing because the fact that you don't even think it's an issue means you're going to continue to make that mistake over and over and over.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-15-2020 , 02:20 PM
This is definitely not a 3 street bets pot so somewhere down the line you gotta find at least one check, I think there are multiple choices could be good but which one is best likely depends on Villains profile.
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote
10-15-2020 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunnyYouSayThat
This thought process will hold you back. Consider it killing two birds with one stone when you get advice on multiple streets of a hand. If fact, consider it a blessing because the fact that you don't even think it's an issue means you're going to continue to make that mistake over and over and over.
I don't consider it a mistake, it isn't against certain players
3barrel in bluff on dry board Quote

      
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