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.5: How do I stop being such a nit? .5: How do I stop being such a nit?

09-27-2010 , 10:46 AM
Some background info:

This is above my usual stakes and I was a bit tilted.
I've been beating $10ish games for more than a year and occasionally took shots at $20 HU games. I've played about 1000 games at $10 and 600 at $20. At games of $20 and higher it seems that most regulars are exploiting the fact that I am a total nit. But so far I'm beating those stakes as well.
Usually I lose most (small pots) but I do that to set up 1 or more bigger pots where I win the chips back with a value type of hand or with a bluff that I have been setting up.
It's a lot easier at games at 10 and lower but a 20NL I don't think I have much of an edge playing that way.

My VP$IP is usually only around 48 to 55 whereas most winning players have a VPIP of 65 to 70. So an adjustment I have to make is to play more hands. Sounds easy, but I don't think I can play 20% more hands and still make a profit.

I only play about 50% of the hands I am dealt, but when I play one I raise them more often than players with a higher VP$IP. I tend to check a lot of flops (only 40% flop best vs the avg of 70%) but I do that with all sorts of hands. I'll check flops with my top pairs also so when ppl are trying to exploit my tight plays I'll check call turn and river and get value for those hands.

OOP I'm pretty tight but I'll call pre flop to check raise bluff some flops etc.
In this game I felt like I was being run over (again) but figured I could get a lot of chips back when I hit and I was planning to set up a big bluff when I dropped to 1000 chips.

Hand #1
Full Tilt Poker $33 + $1.50 Heads Up No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t15/t30 Blinds - 2 players - View hand 951304
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Hero (BB): t1500 50 BBs
BTN/SB: t1500 50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with 4 7
BTN/SB raises to t60, 1 fold

Oke, it's suited. But especially the first 10 hands of a game I play very passively to get a feel for what I'm up against. Should I have limped in because it was suited? Guess folding is fine here.

Hand #2
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1470 49 BBs
BB: t1530 51 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BTN/SB with K 9
Hero raises to t60, BB calls t30

Flop: (t120) 7 3 J (2 players)
BB bets t60, Hero folds

In hindsight I think this is a bad raise size. I should have made it 85 or 90 but I don't expect a winning opponent like him to be calling out of position as often as ppl at lower stakes. Early on I min raise more often to find out how villian responds.
Is there any other post flop play with no reads on villain at this stage of the game?

Hand #3
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Hero (BB): t1410 47 BBs
BTN/SB: t1590 53 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with 7 4
BTN/SB raises to t60, 1 fold

Hand #4
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1380 46 BBs
BB: t1620 54 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BTN/SB with 2 9
1 fold

Fold fold fold... Here I go again.

Hand #5
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Hero (BB): t1365 45.50 BBs
BTN/SB: t1635 54.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with 5 Q
BTN/SB raises to t60, Hero raises to t180, BTN/SB calls t120

--> He's been pre flop raising 100% and he sees me as a nit at this point. Looks like a good spot to represent 99+ or AQ+. I expect him to fold a lot here. I don't know if he is calling to bluff me later on or he does have a hand like KQ or a mid PP that he's trying to hit a set with.

Flop: (t360) 5 6 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB checks

Looking back on it this is a real bad check. I could represent TT or JJ. But I've hit and didn't want to commit too many chips if there was no need to. I took a lot of time before deciding to check on turn and river to make it look as if I wasn't going to instant fold if he tried to take the pot away again.

Turn: (t360) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t180, Hero calls t180

Calling to hope that he shuts down on the river. Another bad play imo. But I thought/hoped he was going to shut down a lot. If I check the flop he can bet the turn with a lot of hands to get me off Ax.

River: (t720) K (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t300, Hero folds

Makes it look like a value bet and it's tough to call with just a 5 with his bet sizing. I thought about it though

Hand #6
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1005 33.50 BBs
BB: t1995 66.50 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BTN/SB with 2 6
1 fold

--> I'm getting shorter on chips and I'm planning to set up a big bluff if there is an opportunity soon

Hand #7
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Hero (BB): t990 33 BBs
BTN/SB: t2010 67 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with 4 7
BTN/SB raises to t60, Hero folds


Hand #8
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Hero (BTN/SB): t930 31 BBs
BB: t2070 69 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BTN/SB with T 7
Hero raises to t60, 1 fold

Hand #9
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Hero (BB): t960 32 BBs
BTN/SB: t2040 68 BBs

Pre Flop: (t45) Hero is BB with T J
BTN/SB raises to t60, Hero calls t30

Flop: (t120) Q 9 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t60, Hero raises to t150, BTN/SB calls t90

Turn: (t420) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets t120, BTN/SB calls t120

River: (t660) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets t630 all in, BTN/SB folds


Had to accumulate some chips. I don't think he can call me down with worse than KQ. I think I played the hand fine because of my nit image. Feel free to comment.
I tried to bet in such a way that he could fold top pair with weak kickers if I shoved on the river. As played it looks as if I have a 9 a lot

Hand #10
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1290 32.25 BBs
BB: t1710 42.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN/SB with 5 8
1 fold

Hand #11
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Hero (BB): t1270 31.75 BBs
BTN/SB: t1730 43.25 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BB with 3 9
BTN/SB raises to t80, 1 fold

Hand #12
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1230 30.75 BBs
BB: t1770 44.25 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN/SB with 4 8
1 fold

Hand #13
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Hero (BB): t1210 30.25 BBs
BTN/SB: t1790 44.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BB with Q 8
1 fold


Hand #14
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1230 30.75 BBs
BB: t1770 44.25 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN/SB with K 4
Hero calls t20, BB raises to t160, 1 fold

Bad limp?

Hand #15
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Hero (BB): t1190 29.75 BBs
BTN/SB: t1810 45.25 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BB with T K
1 fold

Hand #16
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1210 30.25 BBs
BB: t1790 44.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN/SB with 7 3
1 fold

Hand #17
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Hero (BB): t1190 29.75 BBs
BTN/SB: t1810 45.25 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BB with J 2
BTN/SB raises to t80, 1 fold

Hand #18
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1150 28.75 BBs
BB: t1850 46.25 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN/SB with 3 5
1 fold

Hand #19
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Hero (BB): t1130 28.25 BBs
BTN/SB: t1870 46.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BB with 6 T
BTN/SB raises to t80, 1 fold

Hand #20
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1090 27.25 BBs
BB: t1910 47.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN/SB with Q 8
Hero raises to t80, BB raises to t240, 1 fold

Hand #21
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Hero (BB): t1010 25.25 BBs
BTN/SB: t1990 49.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BB with 3 T
BTN/SB raises to t80, Hero raises to t235, 1 fold

I do have a tight image so I can get away with this occasionally.

Hand #22
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1090 27.25 BBs
BB: t1910 47.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN/SB with K 6
Hero calls t20, BB checks

Flop: (t80) A 6 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Should have bet

Turn: (t80) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t40, BB calls t40

River: (t160) T (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Hand #23
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Hero (BB): t1170 29.25 BBs
BTN/SB: t1830 45.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BB with 3 9
BTN/SB raises to t80, 1 fold

Hand #24
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Hero (BTN/SB): t1130 28.25 BBs
BB: t1870 46.75 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN/SB with Q T
Hero raises to t80, BB raises to t240, Hero calls t160

Really bad play from my part. Wasn't calling to just hit top pair but also to bluff shove on some boards that are unlikely to hit him.
Flop: (t480) 3 T 9 (2 players)
BB bets t240, Hero calls t240

Given his pre flop raising % and c bet% I'm quite sure I'm ahead here and so far he's always fired a 2nd barrel. I didn't want to raise him out of the pot with my short stack behind and tried to look weak. I could be beat but I was never planning to fold after this flop.

Turn: (t960) J (2 players)
BB bets t1390 all in, Hero calls t650 all in

River: (t2260) K (2 players - 2 are all in)


After this hand I hit a few very good pre flop hands and he shoved on my JJ with A9 for his remaining stack. I held up and won the game but I feel like I played way too tight.
How do I start adjusting?

Last edited by hopetoimprove; 09-27-2010 at 11:01 AM.
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 10:52 AM
The 3to 3bet is pretty bad, you have a certain threshold of hands you can 3bet bluff, why not do that with a hand that flops you equity?

also I like how you set the pot up in the tj hand, but doubt anybody folds a q, he likely has ax
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopetoimprove
Some background info:

This is above my usual stakes and I was a bit tilted.
biggest mistake here.
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 11:02 AM
sn?
jk

well i only skimmed it but saying that villain is only going to call u with KQ on Q99LL on the river is silly, people dont fold pairs in hu, let alone folding top two with whatever kicker they have if they call u to the river they are calling his Q3o and snaping, do you think a high % of people is folding any Q on that spot? (not saying i dont like the c/r b shove fwiw)

also i think u are checkbacking too many flops, raise more pre, cbet more, get value from draws and from worse hand on flop turn dont wait til river and use all your hands as a bluffcatcher
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 11:08 AM
I think leading hand 5 on turn, and jam some blank rivers.
Allso i like this 3bet with T3 bc he just 3bettted u and we can fold our hand postflop easy

Last hand i think the board is too drawy for flating, i would jam flop, cant see him c-beting this flop with airballz.

Ur run wasnt amazing but still should open some more btns. To just show him whos the boss IP

Hand 13 Q8, u cant do anything if villain openfolds.

Overall i liked ur play, but what is ur plan in hand 9 when u bet turn so smallish? And the stack is really ugly.

And yeah if u are tilted, the stop playng, or move to the 1$ level
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 11:11 AM
he is setting up a river shove imo
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakg
sn?
jk

well i only skimmed it but saying that villain is only going to call u with KQ on Q99LL on the river is silly, people dont fold pairs in hu, let alone folding top two with whatever kicker they have if they call u to the river they are calling his Q3o and snaping, do you think a high % of people is folding any Q on that spot? (not saying i dont like the c/r b shove fwiw)

also i think u are checkbacking too many flops, raise more pre, cbet more, get value from draws and from worse hand on flop turn dont wait til river and use all your hands as a bluffcatcher
I know you are right about me raising too little hands pre. But how do I start to adjust? Raising more pre means c bet bluff more post flop I guess. So I'll have to learn what boards to c bet on. What turns to double barrel and when to give up.
About not betting flops. I try to balance my flop checkback range. I check my ace high but also my KJ on K 5 2 boards. So they can't constantly c bet turn every time I check the flop.
But basically it's often villian asking the questions and me answering. Somehow I have a positive win rate after 600 games of 20NL but that has been a while ago and with this passive play I don't think you can have much of an edge vs any regular above $11 stakes
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopetoimprove
I know you are right about me raising too little hands pre. But how do I start to adjust? Raising more pre means c bet bluff more post flop I guess. So I'll have to learn what boards to c bet on. What turns to double barrel and when to give up.
About not betting flops. I try to balance my flop checkback range. I check my ace high but also my KJ on K 5 2 boards. So they can't constantly c bet turn every time I check the flop.
But basically it's often villian asking the questions and me answering. Somehow I have a positive win rate after 600 games of 20NL but that has been a while ago and with this passive play I don't think you can have much of an edge vs any regular above $11 stakes
bold part, u got it

also no need to balance at low stakes that much vs 99% of opponents, if u are going to try and balance something better to balance your cbet range including more draws, pairs, air in good boards to bluff and second barrel, etc

try adding little by little hands to your pf range like suited trash to J high then to T high then to 9 high for example

gl
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haluebet
I think leading hand 5 on turn, and jam some blank rivers.
Allso i like this 3bet with T3 bc he just 3bettted u and we can fold our hand postflop easy

Last hand i think the board is too drawy for flating, i would jam flop, cant see him c-beting this flop with airballz.

Ur run wasnt amazing but still should open some more btns. To just show him whos the boss IP

Hand 13 Q8, u cant do anything if villain openfolds.

Overall i liked ur play, but what is ur plan in hand 9 when u bet turn so smallish? And the stack is really ugly.

And yeah if u are tilted, the stop playng, or move to the 1$ level
Last hand:
I thought about raising flop, but then I would give my hand away. He would shove the best hand or fold a worse one (most likely imo). He could have an overpair, AK-KQ ish or a bluff. Regardless of what came on the turn I was playing all my chips. If he has a bluff and I raise the flop, he's never going to rebluff because I am committed.
I was quite sure that he'd bet all turn cards again and I wanted to get the money in one street later so he has invested more and he needs to call me down.

About the JT hand.
Check raise on the flop speaks for itself I guess. As a nit I don't call raises OOP with a Q and a kicker under 8. So by check raising flop I represent QT+ or a 9. On the turn I bet small to continue with the story. If I had a value hand I would never overbet shove or commit all my chips and I think he knows that. I was trying to represent a monster and beg for him to put more chips in the pot.
Also I only bet small so he can still fold if I jam river. As I recall it the river push was slightly over pot sized. It's not like I shoved 400 into 630 and he's committed.
I don't know for sure why you think he can not fold top pair with a crap kicker as played. I either have QT+ or a total bluff imo. But I am watching this from a nits perspective so you might be right about your point anyway

Last edited by hopetoimprove; 09-27-2010 at 11:47 AM.
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 01:41 PM
thing is; look, if villain is preceptive enough to know your preflop range, villain is also preceptive enough to see through your bet sizing.

Now I love your betsizing, but not vs someone decent who can hand read and assign ranges and doesn't see you as a complete fish. ie. If I thought you were a reg I'd snap with ax as your line makes no ****ing sense for vlue, why would you set up a pot sized river shove when you could easily make it a 1/2 pot shove on river to commit me.

Last edited by Tortured Existence; 09-27-2010 at 01:48 PM.
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 01:49 PM
lol @ 33NL I was like wtf?
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tortured Existence
thing is; look, if villain is preceptive enough to know your preflop range, villain is also preceptive enough to see through your bet sizing.

Now I love your betsizing, but not vs someone decent who can hand read and assign ranges and doesn't see you as a complete fish. ie. If I thought you were a reg I'd snap with ax as your line makes no ****ing sense for vlue, why would you set up a pot sized river shove when you could easily make it a 1/2 pot shove on river to commit me.
If I could estimate at what level a player is thinking after ten minutes of heads up play I think I would leave college and move to Las Vegas.
It's happened quite some times that I've pot bet shoved the river knowing that he has 2nd pair and got called down by regulars. What the appropriate river bet size is depends on skill level of villain.
Good players are more likely to call big overbets and fold to thin value bets.
Bad/tilted players are more likely to call the thin value bets because "it was only a few chips.."
Hard to figure out which one I'm up against.
If you are in my spot there with JT, are you betting 300 into 600 on the river with another 240ish left?
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 02:16 PM
I'm not sure if this is a level but..

Fold hand 1. you have 74s 75bb deep oop. If you were 150bb deep and you play postflop well, we can discuss the merits of calling.

Hand 2, Minraise is fine. Usually if someone opens 3x on me, i label them as being spewy. Minraise is the standard. 2.5x is fine as well.. Flop is fine to just fold. You don't know how villain plays. Floating has some merits but readless, a fold is fine/standard.

Hand 3. Standard fold
Hand 4. Standard fold

Hand 5, Not sure why you think villain views you as a nit. He has 4 hands on you. FOUR!!. Do you know how meaningless a sample size of 4 is? I have got dealt AQ+/99+ (5%) 5 times in a row before. Does this mean that whenever I raise I have AQ+/99+ all the time or that I raise 100% of my hands? HELL NO. Also, a big lol on your 3bet representing a big hand. You have Q5o. Just fold. If you were suited, it'd be a bit better. Flop is a must bet. Turn, not sure why you called, but I can understand to "bluff-catch", River I think is a call. Here is why. On the river you need 22.72% equity to make the call a good one. If villain had 55+ on the flop, he would bet it. If he had hearts, he would bet it (because all hearts have either 2 overs with it, an oesd, a pair or a gs to go with it). If he had an 8, he'd most likely bet it (80-90% of time). If he had a 7, he'd bet it a lot. If he had 89/sets he'd bet for sure. He'd check back 6x/5x/9x/highcards. Turn bet, he can have highcards/6x/5x. River he can only have highcards or a bluff. He can't have a river 2 paired (usually, maybe like 10% of the time). So he either has K9-KQ or a bluff imo.








hand 6 standard fold
hand 7 standard fold
hand 8 standard open


hand 9 standard defend, stacks are a little weird to c/r and shove on turn, so i'd call here, but i don't hate the c/r that much. turn bet is really weird and random. not sure what you're going for here. river is kinda spewy (imo, but i wouldnt get to the river like this), i can't see villain folding a Q so i guess you got him off a stubborn A high or pp.

hand 10, i'd minraise but definitely on the cusp of the minraise range.
hand 11, standard fold
hand 12, i'd minraise, and again on the cusp of the minraise range.
hand 13, yay free sb
hand 14, minraise 100% of the time. limping is terrible vs given opponent, and folding to a raise.
hand 15, yay free sb
hand 16, standard fold
hand 17, standard fold
hand 18, eh.. marginal spot, can go either way, fold is fine.
hand 19, standard fold
hand 20, standard hand
hand 21, meh, seems spewy,
hand 22, minraise. bet flop.
hand 23, standard

hand 24, standard open, defend is a little meh imo, guy hasnt 3bet much, though i could be wrong and defending is standard (?), flop is an auto shove tho.

Last edited by borderline; 09-27-2010 at 02:28 PM.
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borderline
On the river you need 22.72% equity to make the call a good one. If villain had 55+ on the flop, he would bet it. If he had hearts, he would bet it (because all hearts have either 2 overs with it, an oesd, a pair or a gs to go with it). If he had an 8, he'd most likely bet it (80-90% of time). If he had a 7, he'd bet it a lot. If he had 89/sets he'd bet for sure. He'd check back 6x/5x/9x/highcards. Turn bet, he can have highcards/6x/5x. River he can only have highcards or a bluff. He can't have a river 2 paired (usually, maybe like 10% of the time). So he either has K9-KQ or a bluff imo.
I agree with all of this. But calling based on the % I think he's bluffing is different in a HU turbo S&G compared to a cash game where you can just rebuy if you are wrong (in my opinion, feel free to disagree)
I found it a strange pattern but didn't want to leave myself with 600 chips left

I've told many regulars that I often get blinded away in HU S&G's and that I 3bet crap hands to compensate for that, hoping to accumulate some chips. It is not the way to go obviously. And I know that I should get my VPIP above 60% and work at my post flop play.
Like someone said earlier: Raise more pre and c bet more post.
But with what type of hands.. when to give up and when to fire another bullet, and why.. I think I'll need some coaching to work at those leaks

Last edited by hopetoimprove; 09-27-2010 at 03:35 PM.
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote
09-27-2010 , 03:29 PM
But calling based the % I think he's bluffing is different in a HU turbo S&G compared to a cash game where you can just rebuy if you are wrong (in my opinion, feel free to disagree)

If this was an mtt or a sng, where CEV =! $EV, then I would agree with you, but in a HUSNG, chips are worth the same as $ because when you win, you're winning 100% of the prize pool.
.5: How do I stop being such a nit? Quote

      
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