€30 reg speed AJo vs min 3bettor fish - Page 2 - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

You are making assumptions you have no information about. For every villain who gets attached after they call a 4bet I see at least one playing fit-or-fold.

And calling his 3bet with the intention to just play fit-or-fold ourself is just terrible.

Uh wait what?

Quote

06-05-2011 , 07:31 PM

#27

TakeHerOnACruise

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,253

Quote:

Originally Posted by avman

Haha. This is such an intuitive call I guess I am not doing a very good job at explaining myself. I don't know what else to add. 4betting is great when the effective stacks are such that you wouldn't be able to get the donk's stacks unless you 4bet. But it does not make sense to me to 4bet when we're only gonna get value postflop when we hit a hand, and 4betting will only make the donk become attached to the pot and likely to bluff us out of our hand when the pot is huge.

I would rather fold in a 200 pot if we get bluffed in 568 flop than in 460.

Ok saying "haha this is such a call/fold/raise" is a bad attitude towards learning here.

Can you expand on the following points:

- what do you believe villain's range is for making this 3bet? why?

- How do you expect villain to react to a 4bet? why?

- if he does flat call a 4bet what kind of range would you assign him? why?

- if he shoves over a 4bet what kind of range would you assign him? why?

- how often will he call/fold to a shove? what range will he call a shove with in your opinion? why?

- how often will he call/fold/shove over a 4bet? why?

- what would you do here with AQ AK 55-99? why?

- have you taken any of this into consideration before making your posts? why?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgl

We are not interested in any edge. We always only want the largest edge possible. Id agree with shoving if it werent for the read we were given, and or if stacks were just a little bit shallower. But this guys only mission in life is to hit any pair or draw and stack of. I dont have any math to back it up and +80% edge is probably a bit high sure.
But i really do think we are going to have a larger edge postflop with AJ in position vs this guy than shovving will give us. But its probably really close, if stacks were 100t shallower shoving would probably be better since he might call with KT and the like.
Someone should really do a stoxEV simulation of this spot to settle the matter. But im to lazy =)

Why does the read make you less inclined to shove? why?

What is the smallest estimated edge vs a range in any given pre flop spot you'd be happy to take? why?

whhhhhhyyyyyy??????

Quote

06-05-2011 , 07:37 PM

#28

Joe Pulaski

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,346

im not sure if people are advocating flatting the 3bet but thats by far the worst option ainec. all that matters is 4bet size; i probably shove just cause fk it hes not gonna fold anyways

Quote

06-05-2011 , 09:26 PM

#29

mgl

journeyman

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 204

Quote:

Originally Posted by TakeHerOnACruise

whhhhhhyyyyyy??????

1. My experience aka gut feeling with ppl who min 3bet 10 hands in a row is that they are insanely profitable postflop. And since its a regspeed it "feels" like calling > shoving. Might be wrong tho.

2. This depends on a combination of stacks, time left and opponent type. So kinda hard to answer numerically. Also any such answer would be pretty useless since it would only be a guesstimate anyway.

But show me a stoxEV simulation with reasonable fold/calling ranges and with a high enough winrate and ill change my mind =)

Quote

06-05-2011 , 09:38 PM

#30

Joe Pulaski

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,346

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgl

1. My experience aka gut feeling with ppl who min 3bet 10 hands in a row is that they are insanely profitable everywhere

fyp, 4betting is by far the best play

Quote

06-05-2011 , 09:52 PM

#31

mgl

journeyman

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Pulaski

fyp, 4betting is by far the best play

So you dont even think its close? If there is a best play here i really dont think the are far apart. And the deciding factor should be how much play there is left in the match.