3rd hand vs him. 2nd hand i 3bet 4.25bb and fold to his shove. no other reads.



PokerStars - $29.37+$0.63|10/20 NL (2 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 22.75 BB
BB: 27.25 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 2 A

Hero raises to 2 BB, BB calls 1 BB

Flop: (4 BB, 2 players) K 7 6
BB checks, Hero bets 1.75 BB, BB raises to 3.5 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, BB calls 2.5 BB

Turn: (16 BB, 2 players) 4
BB checks, [color=red]Hero ??

I believe flop is standard. wanted to get action against lower fd or 89 type hands. maybe I could call flop and decide ott but flop 3bet is also fine as I do the same thing with Kx.
Once he called, his range is Kx,7x mostly and some 89 8T type floats but turn 3 is not good card for us. check or bet/call?

why not 3b shoving flop instead of small 3b?u have only 24% chance to hit the turn card and if u dont hit it and he shoves u dont have the right odds to call ?

yeah jam the flop

+1

obv flop shove is obv

correct play is cbet 1,5BB flop then 4bet shove.
you have 12 outs, aprrox coin flip, you win on fold equity.
check behind flop for pot control is also correct depending on the opponent and the game meta

BOOM!!!! PacificJJ knows what the **** is up!! Great first post. Long time lurker?

ty mate, hello 2+2 people!
nice tits btw

I am kinda curious about all the "obv shove" guys, why is this an obv 3bet shove?

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I know I have good equity but jamming doesn't really increase fold equity.
Kx is not folding anyway. If i know he could be doing this with 7x, then I don't mind jamming but otherwise, 3betting 6-7bb is better imo.

What do you think about flatting here?

Interesting. One of merits I can think of is that once diamond hits, we will get paid off reasonably hard. I should not have many flush draws given that i flatted otf and his range should have fd reasonably often. Even if he was bluffing with 0/1 diamond, it is a profitable spot to triple barrel as a bluff and we just call down with the nut. obv he is betting with Kx as well.

On 7,4 i could bluff him off repping trips ...and on K turn, maybe i can call more after judging his betting size. I don't expect ave villain playing $30 is triple barreling when K is turn. (unless he is aggro, probably one of regs in that case). A is obv good for us.

Problem is for other turns..esp. when turn is 8-Q. If he was bluffing, this 5 cards helps his bluffing range(?). 89,8T, QT who decided to bluff with straight draws/backdoor equity. I don't think I can bluff well on those turns and will have trouble calling him once more and fold to river bet...but i think im giving up too much equity . He could easily bettinig his pair for value when he hits turn and I am not even sure what i can do when he checks on those turns/rivers caz it is possible that he stopped bluffing once he hit a pair..and I have showdown value lol. will be confused. any thoughts on this part?

I think it is better to flat his minraise with J9dd or 8d3d type hands that has backdoor straight draws and blocks some of his bluffing range. we are not really using that fact that we have A high fd since we can actually bluff him off once A hits ott..

I think flatting is also decent option if my kicker with A is > 7. I would flat sometimes if that situation happens. I just want to get it in with Ad2d.

You think too much. Jam flop

main point for not jamming is to extract more value from bluff. I thought this is clear. ppl are talking about fold equity when there is no chance that he is folding Kx and we are way way ahead otherwise.

+1

exactly what i was thinking when all said it was so obv shove/3bet spot. Arguments is that we almost flip vs bigger part of his valuerange and he will fold a ton but if we asumes he dont have many 7x in his range that we may fold out. Then we only fold out the part that we actually crush, I think that even a float here and the just hold the call button down all the way (raise if we spike an A or flush) regardless of turn and river would even be better than just shoving flop.

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This doesn't make much sense. Just because we are "way way ahead" doesn't mean we cannot jam here. For example, he can decide to go with his (dominated) draws now on flop, but not on turn when he misses. There are many cases where jamming this on flop is the most +EV play, and that's not because of the FE. We actually wanna get called by worse sometimes (vs Kx it doesn't matter anyway). When they c/r with draws, it's probably not to c/r and then to fold.

Also, we don't have a strong bluff catcher after the flop. We can call pretty much any bet on turn, yes, but what if you miss both turn and river and he bets into you? And it's not like you're gonna win his stack very often on a diamond turn anyway, let alone A. By the way, I don't think he has many Kx/7x when he flats your 3bet, although there are some (and more Kx than 7x).

As played - although I don't find myself in these spots very often - it can go either way. You can jam and hope to get called by draws, or check back and try to catch up on the river. I don't think it matters very much tbh, so I might end up jamming. But really, this is an easy shove on flop.

I thought about flatting on flop for a while, but shoving seems superior. This has a lot to do with the stack size as well. Deep stacked poker, meaning at >40bb, you can 3bet this on flop and that's totally fine. Here though, we just don't have enough stacks behind.

This is an easier way of saying that there is no good sizing for us this shallow. If we go small, we have no FE, and if we go any bigger than that tiny 3bet, we cannot expect him to expect us to 3b/fold anything. The bad part is that our hand is the most obvious combo draw in the universe, we hit only the best scare cards, so by 3betting NAI we give him implied odds to draw to a safe turn w his Kx/7x/98 etc. If we were deeper, we would have the same effect on turn&river, but we could make a 3bet big enough that he isn't flatting most of his range, yet small enough that it gives villain a semblance of FE vs us and gives us FE on turns we don't hit if he flats flop.

Yeah, thanks for elaboration JSpazz.

While I agree with you that there is no good sizing for us, I think you can still have a NAI 3b (like cib) range vs some opponents. For example, 2p or better would be fine hands to do that with, along with some bluff if he's a balanced reg (but for the most part they don't attack this kinda board with total air very often). This has the added benefit of allowing him to spaz with the weak part of his range, and we don't really mind him flatting when we have such a strong hand, which is clearly not the case when we have A2dd.

Thanks for replies, mela and JSpazz.
I guess I was trying to balance my range a bit+ get more action from straight draws (don't think they are calling if I shove) but didn't realize that i give him good implied odds and he could flat my 3bet(did not really think this way).

BTW, do we ever 3bet shove with Kx here? I usually 3bet NAI(but a bit more than cib) with good K and flat with K no kicker but didn't really shoving Kx for me. As mela pointed out, if my villain is not pure bluffing on this board maybe i should shove some % of times(meaning good Kx).

Unless you have reads that villain will barrel turns wide and often after he c/r flop, I think flatting any Kx to a c/r on this board is bad.

If villain c/r open ended straight draws and flush draws, he's not likely to fold them to a jam. If you cib or flat, you give them correct odds to flat and hit their draw. Sure, they may jam over some % of the time, but you allow them to play their range better when you cib, which we don't want.

Also, consider what most villains will do on turn if they flatted your cib. They will c/f, and you miss half their stack that would have called a jam on the flop.

mela and jspazz we need to think he's going to stack of against a 3betshove on flop with majority of his dominated drawing range (89, FD) to make 3betshove>flatting on flop dont we?

Yeah sort of, and I think they will. Like I said, when they c/r those draws on this flop it's probably to c/r and get it in, not to c/r and fold to our 3b.

And let's assume they won't call our 3b shove. Well, what that likely means is that he won't c/c on a blank turn either after flop c/r.. so it's not like we are gonna win lot more chips by flatting his c/r anyway. In a sense, he pretty much freerolls with his draws when we flat his raise.