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Old 09-21-2010, 05:13 PM   #1
Shove
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23$; toppair vs riverdonk

Villain is an ok player. Calls a little bit to tight oop and 3bets a lot. Postflop is solid too, nothing noteworthy happened so far.

b/f turn and fold river? Shove river if he would have checked?

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $80(BB) Replayer
($1,465)
Hero ($1,535)

Dealt to Hero 3 Q

Hero raises to $160, calls $80

FLOP ($320) T T 6

checks, Hero bets $160, calls $160

TURN ($640) T T 6 Q

checks, Hero bets $320, calls $320

RIVER ($1,280) T T 6 Q 2

bets $480, Hero folds
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:19 PM   #2
borderline
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

check turn if you're going to fold to this river card.
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:24 PM   #3
spamz
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

Quote:
Originally Posted by borderline View Post
check turn if you're going to fold to this river card.
no
river is really close imo though looks like a fold
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Old 09-21-2010, 05:36 PM   #4
LegalizeIt
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

why do you open Q3o?
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:55 PM   #5
Arsenal Gunners
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

Because he is a little too tight OOP and blinds are kinda big right now
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:30 AM   #6
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

Lean towards a fold,decent players don't really bluff like this.
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:45 AM   #7
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

I fold preflop unless hes folding more than 50% oop.
I check flop behind.(practically giving up)
Bet or call turn.
Bet(if he c/c turn) or call(if he stabbed turn and barreled river) river.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:08 AM   #8
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

if you 2nd barrel a ton on boards like that, turn play is cool. If not, checking as a part of a balanced strategy is way better. imo...
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:03 PM   #9
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnJo280 View Post
I fold preflop unless hes folding more than 50% oop.
I check flop behind.(practically giving up)
Bet or call turn.
Bet(if he c/c turn) or call(if he stabbed turn and barreled river) river.

After we raise pf we have to cbet on this board. I really see no logic in raising pf and than giving up + we get a super board to barrel on

Fold pre wouldn't be bad.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:14 PM   #10
AnJo280
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

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Originally Posted by wabomushroom View Post
After we raise pf we have to cbet on this board. I really see no logic in raising pf and than giving up + we get a super board to barrel on

Fold pre wouldn't be bad.
Well minraising 100% if villain is folding 50+% is allways +ev.
When i played the 20s(1 month ago ) people would never fold A-high on a paired board to a c-bet and even K-high or any other crap is good enough for them because theyll bluff you on the river.

I dont think the c-bet is horrible though. Because he wont need more than 33% fold equity.

I just find it more comfortable to have a slightly stronger c-betting range than any2. :P
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Old 09-22-2010, 04:15 PM   #11
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

Villain's line is pretty Tx or nothing unless he would blocker with a strongish A? I dunno, I probably still fold.

it looks to me like this WOULD be a great bluff if he thought you were two barreling your entire range on the flop/turn, but that's giving him too much credit. He flatted flop and turn with something, the bet is probably for value, I guess I'd be curious if he ever bet worse this way. Most of his blockery-type hands that you beat (99-77 type stuff?) would get it in pre. He has a lot of Tx in his range, and he def can play it this way. If he were getting way out of line with floats, double floats, etc, I would look him up because this is so FOS, but the fact that he is tightish pre (less bluffs in range), probably wouldn't turn a made hand into a bluff, and hasn't gotten out of line makes me want to fold. It's Tx or nothing really but do we have a read that he'd do this with nothing? (or 6x)
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Old 09-22-2010, 05:24 PM   #12
fastcolt
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

id normally check turn for pot control


as played i fold river


the more i think about it the more i hate the turn bet, i just dont see what you are folding that is ahead of you / what is calling that u beat

i mean he floats flop prolly with A high and some PPs (like 99-77 imo) on turn, hes folding a 6, hes not folding a flush and hes prolly not folding a T

so i really see no reason at all for betting turn, just because you hit something or you improved does not necessairly mean you should bet

Last edited by fastcolt; 09-22-2010 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 09-22-2010, 06:04 PM   #13
fastcolt
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Re: 23$; toppair vs riverdonk

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnJo280 View Post
I fold preflop unless hes folding more than 50% oop.
I check flop behind.(practically giving up)
Bet or call turn.
Bet(if he c/c turn) or call(if he stabbed turn and barreled river) river.
i personally can also see merit in anjo's suggested line, but slightly diff

if ud c/ flop behind simply because you think you have v lil FE since villain probably realises this is a dry board then im also giving up here on the flop, ofc im not giving up on 100% of dry boards but when villain is a thinking semi solid post flop player, i will not cbet as blindly on these kind off flops as i would vs someone whose obv playing hit or fold..

for the turn where u make ur Q if he checks again i bet for value like 2/3ds pot but if he calls and checks the river, im probably checking it behind because i will hate to get c/raised on the river (although this gives me the option to make a v easy river fold, im more concerned about getting to showdown with my TP NO kicker then with bloating and inflating the pot)

if he bets out turn im flatting once (unless he overbets or pots it or something weird and i have no reads ) (if its a Q ofc, this entire post is assuming the cards come as they came here ) and folding on all rivers or checking behind all rivers

just my 2 cents, found anjo's post interesting figured id give my 2 cents on it

Last edited by fastcolt; 09-22-2010 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Sorry for double post was too late to edit earlier one :(
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