Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos Discussion of heads up Sit & Go and Spin and Go poker games. Sponsored by HUSNG.com, the leading heads up poker video site.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-22-2019, 03:41 AM   #151
saintanna23
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 97
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Was this a hyperturbo with 3 mins blinds this libratus bot was playing in? There are roughly 21-22 hands/game to make ur ev in. Until someone proves to me this is possible to beat 2 regs with 5% rake I don't believe it.
saintanna23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 04:21 AM   #152
WeeBey
newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 27
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

On top of my head, Winamax bots had 51 and 49cEV. The guy with 49 probably had a bigger ratio of 250s played than the other guy.
If I had to put a number, I'd say they were playing 0.8 reg per tables.
I'd be surprised if they could achieve more than 25cEV vs average 250s regs.


Btw, I find GTO way more aggresive than an average reg for sure. Way more x/r on any streets. Way more 3bet NAI bluff, more 3bet AI "bluff", probably a bit more ISO bluffs.
Even 3way, did you ever see a reg 3bet jam K7s BB vs BTN ?
More x/r BB vs BTN. Fold more vs cbet tho but VPIP more preflop.
I guess they're more "passive" SB BVB overall but more aggressive IP tho.

They donk bet WAY more than an average reg. Especially if you discount the obvious donking spot you listed above.

Yes they are calling station and they probably check more top pairs than an average reg flop/turn. Does that make them less aggressive ?

Libratus it's "flat" 200bb poker.


GL for the end of your challenge.
WeeBey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 06:19 AM   #153
Mimicry
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 204
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Well on party 250/500 with 40% rakeback u need only 21+cev according to swing swom calculator if its correct so this is not much .Nobody cant beat them ?
Mimicry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 07:37 AM   #154
saintanna23
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 97
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimicry View Post
Well on party 250/500 with 40% rakeback u need only 21+cev according to swing swom calculator if its correct so this is not much .Nobody cant beat them ?
The guys in stable maffia's (used to be HU HYPER CARTELS in those days) can beat them because they avoid each other. Any regular unconnected to any stable maffia will be attacked by that maffia as soon as they want to play, thus not getting any fish or maybe like 1 fish and 20 regs. If u are really good u can maybe get 5-10cev in a game vs 2 other regs. But on 500s it will be close to 0cev in a game vs 2 regs. Thus they will not be able to get that 21cev threshold in long run.
saintanna23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 09:52 AM   #155
Mimicry
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 204
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by saintanna23 View Post
The guys in stable maffia's (used to be HU HYPER CARTELS in those days) can beat them because they avoid each other. Any regular unconnected to any stable maffia will be attacked by that maffia as soon as they want to play, thus not getting any fish or maybe like 1 fish and 20 regs. If u are really good u can maybe get 5-10cev in a game vs 2 other regs. But on 500s it will be close to 0cev in a game vs 2 regs. Thus they will not be able to get that 21cev threshold in long run.

So on 100s on stars when theres allmost all are regs u can win 30-40 cev but u canot make even 15-20 cev on 250-500 in party with less rake and 40% rakeback dafuq u are talking ....on stars i watch 500s playeers all day play 2-3 regs per game and didnt stop without rakeback and with higher rake .I dont see any logic.
Mimicry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 10:28 AM   #156
saintanna23
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 97
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

No, when there are only regs on 100s stars u can't make money. Best example is thread hero freeq. when he launches all tables and there are no fish he gets crushed by rake. Hence he quit. Some smart guys who only play on good moments can survive with decent cev.
saintanna23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 11:47 AM   #157
Mimicry
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 204
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by saintanna23 View Post
No, when there are only regs on 100s stars u can't make money. Best example is thread hero freeq. when he launches all tables and there are no fish he gets crushed by rake. Hence he quit. Some smart guys who only play on good moments can survive with decent cev.
Nope ,if he had 40% rakeback and 4% rake he would have been winning alot ,even with only 40% rakeback.
Mimicry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 01:04 PM   #158
saintanna23
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 97
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimicry View Post
Nope ,if he had 40% rakeback and 4% rake he would have been winning alot ,even with only 40% rakeback.
And if a lion had wings, it could fly.
saintanna23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 07:29 PM   #159
Mimicry
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 204
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by saintanna23 View Post
And if a lion had wings, it could fly.
Ok explain how regs on 500s on stars win with bigger rake and 0 rakeback but on party its not profitable ?
Mimicry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 08:35 PM   #160
_Beck_
stranger
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 8
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimicry View Post
Ok explain how regs on 500s on stars win with bigger rake and 0 rakeback but on party its not profitable ?
Back in the days probably , but nowadays the situation is not that good .

btw do you remember muto :P ?
cuz I remember assassin with similar name like your
_Beck_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2019, 10:30 PM   #161
Mimicry
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 204
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Beck_ View Post
Back in the days probably , but nowadays the situation is not that good .

btw do you remember muto :P ?
cuz I remember assassin with similar name like your
Diablo 2 eps ? Yes here iam.
Mimicry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2019, 12:16 AM   #162
saintanna23
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 97
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimicry View Post
Ok explain how regs on 500s on stars win with bigger rake and 0 rakeback but on party its not profitable ?
I have never said regs are winning on 500s. Some will do but winrates are very low. Just check hyperschool.ru. U can see their average cev on 500s. Last time I checked it was 18,5.
Also, have u actually seen graphs from winning players on 500s? The only graph I saw was from CUAT69$sng but they were doing their maffia cheating queeing game and he got banned.

I will try to explain in a simple way how the game works:

1. Money in poker comes from losing players, fish.
2. Winning players lose money to rake and have to make sure they win enough from the losing players to cover the rake loss.
3. In a spin and go with 5% rake u need enough fish to make up the games u play vs regs. Why freeq has been close to BE/Losing cev in the games last 10k games. Because there was not enough fish to make up for the high rake and no rakeback.

Why a non-hypermaffia connected player cannot win at 250 on party even with rakeback I already explained but will try one last time.

1. Maffia guys have 10 people in line. When number 1 registers, number two waits until the game is launched, then number 2 will register the next game.
2. Non-maffia connected reg wants to play in this game as well and launches a game. He will always have to play against at least 1 of these 10 players. But if Maffia really wants to bully him, they just reg all together until non-maffia connected guy gives up because he can't get fish games.
3. Conclusion, non-maffia connected guy will get almost only regs on his tables and will not be able to get more than 10-15cev thus not beating rake even with 50% Rakeback.
saintanna23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2019, 03:20 AM   #163
Mimicry
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 204
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by saintanna23 View Post
I have never said regs are winning on 500s. Some will do but winrates are very low. Just check hyperschool.ru. U can see their average cev on 500s. Last time I checked it was 18,5.
Also, have u actually seen graphs from winning players on 500s? The only graph I saw was from CUAT69$sng but they were doing their maffia cheating queeing game and he got banned.

I will try to explain in a simple way how the game works:

1. Money in poker comes from losing players, fish.
2. Winning players lose money to rake and have to make sure they win enough from the losing players to cover the rake loss.
3. In a spin and go with 5% rake u need enough fish to make up the games u play vs regs. Why freeq has been close to BE/Losing cev in the games last 10k games. Because there was not enough fish to make up for the high rake and no rakeback.

Why a non-hypermaffia connected player cannot win at 250 on party even with rakeback I already explained but will try one last time.

1. Maffia guys have 10 people in line. When number 1 registers, number two waits until the game is launched, then number 2 will register the next game.
2. Non-maffia connected reg wants to play in this game as well and launches a game. He will always have to play against at least 1 of these 10 players. But if Maffia really wants to bully him, they just reg all together until non-maffia connected guy gives up because he can't get fish games.
3. Conclusion, non-maffia connected guy will get almost only regs on his tables and will not be able to get more than 10-15cev thus not beating rake even with 50% Rakeback.

I know how it works be sure of that no point of telling me same thing over and over i just ask.So people on 500s on stars are all losing but they continue playing all day since i see allmost same players all the time ?Well u cannot make me believe regs give their money on purpose .
Mimicry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2019, 07:02 AM   #164
valuecutting
journeyman
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 234
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

They are battling 3 reg games for the lobby, not because they think they can beat the rake playing eachother
valuecutting is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2019, 07:37 AM   #165
saintanna23
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 97
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by valuecutting View Post
They are battling 3 reg games for the lobby, not because they think they can beat the rake playing eachother
Yes, exactly. On PokerStars it is still possible to fight for the lobby because security cracks down on these Hyper cartels.
saintanna23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2019, 02:06 PM   #166
coon74
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,685
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Even so, I reckon most of them are suffering from illusory superiority, don't want an easy life, push themselves to the level where their hourly winrates are lower except for a few true sickos

Meanwhile, Stars executives are rubbing their hands seeing the rake flow.
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2019, 10:56 PM   #167
saintanna23
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 97
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by coon74 View Post
Even so, I reckon most of them are suffering from illusory superiority, don't want an easy life, push themselves to the level where their hourly winrates are lower except for a few true sickos

Meanwhile, Stars executives are rubbing their hands seeing the rake flow.
Hehe, this is spot on. I too have been guilty of believing battling it out was the way to go. Not anymore, I'm done making PS rich and getting breadcrumbs in return.
saintanna23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 04:41 PM   #168
d0zer
grinder
 
d0zer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 510
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

to be fair there is a rather big period of "dust settling" as far as optimal stakes to play combined with what you want to accomplish, especially in a super high variance / changing game conditions format like spins

a lot of people end up plateauing at a level like 7s or something, assuming the higher stakes are not beatable because 7s has the highest amount of fish, while in reality their skillset simply does not allow them to play higher

now, this same process gets repeated with every stake until an equilibrium is reached given current game conditions and ones skillset

i think even looking at hyperpool average WR or such will give an incorrect overview, as there are a lot of mediocre regs (for each stake) in the list, brining the average cEV down, while there are people playing the same stakes and having 10 cEV+ higher results on a constant basis
d0zer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 05:16 PM   #169
Calmarsen
stranger
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 6
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
while there are people playing the same stakes and having 10 cEV+ higher results on a constant basis
20-50+ but yes
Calmarsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 07:36 PM   #170
youngdaggerdick
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 87
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

will u back to streams ? @freeq
youngdaggerdick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2019, 06:54 AM   #171
coon74
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 10,685
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by d0zer View Post
a lot of people end up plateauing at a level like 7s or something, assuming the higher stakes are not beatable because 7s has the highest amount of fish, while in reality their skillset simply does not allow them to play higher
Higher stakes are beatable but harder to beat, and life isn't all about playing cards online
coon74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2019, 06:53 AM   #172
SambaSwing
stranger
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 11
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

hi freeqone

how are you doing?
SambaSwing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2019, 09:15 AM   #173
FREEQONE
centurion
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 183
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by SambaSwing View Post
hi freeqone

how are you doing?
Very bad.

in January played 3 days in -10K$ EV.
Now I feel disgusted with poker and have not opened the tables for 10-14 days.
FREEQONE is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 12:29 AM   #174
a_r_K
journeyman
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 241
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by FREEQONE View Post
Very bad.

in January played 3 days in -10K$ EV.
Now I feel disgusted with poker and have not opened the tables for 10-14 days.
In the grand scheme of things downswing you are going through is very standard for anyone who plays poker poker professionally. The worst thing to do with nasty runs is take lots of time off and lose focus IMO. What i do is play stake where i'm 100% financially comfortable and know for sure have edge and then just grind through it whatever happens. Once you have that run good confidence again can move back up.
a_r_K is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2019, 04:21 AM   #175
saintanna23
enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 97
Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by FREEQONE View Post
Very bad.

in January played 3 days in -10K$ EV.
Now I feel disgusted with poker and have not opened the tables for 10-14 days.
You play poker they way grinders used to during the golden SNE times with the big difference that u are getting close to O RB. Why don't u play on partypoker? This year they got their own SNE program and special deal until 100% rakeback for the first 2 grinders reaching 200K rake.
saintanna23 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008-2017, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online