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Old 07-15-2019, 06:25 PM   #426
youngdaggerdick
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by jeffreyPL1 View Post
Studying GTO @ any games under $100 is useless.
sure, this why almost everyone on 30s/60s are terrible monkeys
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:30 PM   #427
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by FREEQONE View Post
I think this is a pretty interesting tool.
But since my results are too bad not sure this gives a lot of chipEV.

I'm almost everyday study and then training my self at 4 tables vs solutions.
But apparently I'm a complete moron, since I barely beating real games.

Study in Simple GTO Trainer looks like this:

https://i.gyazo.com/127a6bac699a3dcb...21c85867c1.mp4
why do you think u have bad results ? if you see average regs on ev pools they have same or even less cev than you while they play prob between 2-4-6 tables
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Old 07-16-2019, 04:09 AM   #428
jeffreyPL1
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by youngdaggerdick View Post
sure, this why almost everyone on 30s/60s are terrible monkeys
Yea. I barely played any poker last 2-3 years, came back, adjusted game a bit and so far beating 100s by 50+ cpg 7-8 tabling for most of the time. In my life I opened PIO two times maybe.

People should focus on simple things like learning the rule 'folding makes more money than calling', checking marked hands, using simple filters in pt4, working on pre game 3handed instead of learning some GTO sh*t which is often far from optimal anyway. I remember when I was streaming on Twitch and I was getting questions about GTO all the time, mostly from 7-15s players where all you need is to play ABC not GTO
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:13 AM   #429
youngdaggerdick
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by jeffreyPL1 View Post
Yea. I barely played any poker last 2-3 years, came back, adjusted game a bit and so far beating 100s by 50+ cpg 7-8 tabling for most of the time. In my life I opened PIO two times maybe.

People should focus on simple things like learning the rule 'folding makes more money than calling', checking marked hands, using simple filters in pt4, working on pre game 3handed instead of learning some GTO sh*t which is often far from optimal anyway. I remember when I was streaming on Twitch and I was getting questions about GTO all the time, mostly from 7-15s players where all you need is to play ABC not GTO
You must be family of phil ivey or daniel negreanu, congrats for crushing 100s@7-8 tables when people are struggling to get 40+ at 2-4 tabling.

IN if you stream again, ill sub
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:13 AM   #430
FREEQONE
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by jeffreyPL1 View Post
Yea. I barely played any poker last 2-3 years, came back, adjusted game a bit and so far beating 100s by 50+ cpg 7-8 tabling for most of the time. In my life I opened PIO two times maybe.

People should focus on simple things like learning the rule 'folding makes more money than calling', checking marked hands, using simple filters in pt4, working on pre game 3handed instead of learning some GTO sh*t which is often far from optimal anyway. I remember when I was streaming on Twitch and I was getting questions about GTO all the time, mostly from 7-15s players where all you need is to play ABC not GTO
Would be nice if you share your graph with the relevance of at least 6 months at 100s
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:34 AM   #431
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by FREEQONE View Post
Would be nice if you share your graph with the relevance of at least 6 months at 100s
I came back to decent grind last month need one more month to show a decent sample as it`s just my side job atm but I`ll no worries bud.

youngdaggerdick, you don`t have to be Phil Ivey to keep things simple. People just need to focus on simple stuff where they leak money and play instead of complaining on games and searching for some GTO holy grail. 90% of people are in stables nowadays and still most of them have big leaks 3h pre where it`s easiest to make winrate better. GTO won`t help with such stuff.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:57 AM   #432
FREEQONE
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by jeffreyPL1 View Post
I came back to decent grind last month need one more month to show a decent sample as it`s just my side job atm but I`ll no worries bud.

youngdaggerdick, you don`t have to be Phil Ivey to keep things simple. People just need to focus on simple stuff where they leak money and play instead of complaining on games and searching for some GTO holy grail. 90% of people are in stables nowadays and still most of them have big leaks 3h pre where it`s easiest to make winrate better. GTO won`t help with such stuff.
I have in my database samples at 100s like: 15000 games 50 chipev, 13000 games 47 chipev.
But it is not matter and it not means "crusher", because I know that next 5000-10000 games will be 20-30 chipev.
And you cannot avoid it, it is simple coollers like KK vs AA, two pair vs two pair.

You talking about poker like it simple thing.
But it is not simple.
And I know many regs who study hard and they don't have even 40 chipEV nowadays with exploiting style.
I think sample less than 50000 games not relevant.
Variance is too big in Spin and Go and you cannot make some conclusions based on 5-10-15k games at stakes 100s+.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:13 AM   #433
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

IMO you can as on other hand with bigger sample games level might have changed. If you take 10k games from 2017 and 10k from 2019 it will be worse than a smaller 10k sample but more up to date 6-7k is a fine amount to judge approx cpg and it doesn`t really matter if you have 47 or 50- with number of tabs you are playing it`s still big and hourly is most important.

Also there is no way that guy with 50cpg will have 5-10k game stretch with 20-30 cpg, variance isn`t that big.

Last edited by jeffreyPL1; 07-16-2019 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:27 AM   #434
FREEQONE
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by jeffreyPL1 View Post
IMO you can as on other hand with bigger sample games level might have changed. If you take 10k games from 2017 and 10k from 2019 if will be worse than a smaller 10k sample but more up to date 6-7k is a fine amount to judge approx cpg and it doesn`t really matter if you have 47 or 50- with number of tabs you are playing it`s still big and hourly is most important.

Also there is no way that guy with 50cpg will have 5-10k game stretch with 20-30 cpg, variance isn`t that big.
Suprised that you still believe that variance isn't big.

Lets talk about a guy with 40 chipEV understanding
(I'm sure and have a lot of proves that avg chipEV at 100s in 2019 is not higher than 40)
On 10k games sample:



One guy have godmode and finish 10k up to 52 chipEV
Second one burning in hell and fall to <30.
But they are both have equal skill.

And this is real life.
The distribution will be as in the picture.
You might think that 1% or 5% is insignificant and it is possible not to think about it?
But in fact, 5% is 1 out of 20 of regs, where is the guarantee that it won't be you.
And variance has no memory, you can well understand the game but long enough to have 10 points worse winrate.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:45 AM   #435
youngdaggerdick
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

why are we playing this stupid game?
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:55 AM   #436
jeffreyPL1
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by FREEQONE View Post
Suprised that you still believe that variance isn't big.

Lets talk about a guy with 40 chipEV understanding
(I'm sure and have a lot of proves that avg chipEV at 100s in 2019 is not higher than 40)
On 10k games sample:



One guy have godmode and finish 10k up to 52 chipEV
Second one burning in hell and fall to <30.
But they are both have equal skill.

And this is real life.
The distribution will be as in the picture.
You might think that 1% or 5% is insignificant and it is possible not to think about it?
But in fact, 5% is 1 out of 20 of regs, where is the guarantee that it won't be you.
And variance has no memory, you can well understand the game but long enough to have 10 points worse winrate.
I played 100k+ spins in my life I guess and it`s not like I don`t know nothing about a variance or haven`t used SwongSim I was refering to 50 cpg average, there are no such swings on 5-10k games that you mentioned with this winrate that`s all. 40cpg or less is different story.

Also best regs nowadays are making 50+ cpg @ 100s easily.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:25 AM   #437
youngdaggerdick
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

its almost the same cev variance.. even worse 5k 50cev than 40cev 10k games, stop with that pepega comments, show us your graph with 50k games with 60games/hr and 50cev
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Old 07-16-2019, 03:44 PM   #438
jeffreyPL1
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by youngdaggerdick View Post
its almost the same cev variance.. even worse 5k 50cev than 40cev 10k games, stop with that pepega comments, show us your graph with 50k games with 60games/hr and 50cev
Woorse yeaaa not sure if you are serious or trolling. Run a simulation of 50cpg on 5k games sample and show me these 20-30cpg guys
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:29 AM   #439
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

I highly doubt that jeffreyPL1 actually has 50+ cev playing 6-7 tables. I always thought of him as a reg of 35-40 cev, so i would doubt even if he was 3-4 tabling. Dont take me wrong here, being a reg of 100s for so long isnt a small achievment, but saying you have 50+ cev while 6-7 tabling is a statement i think no reg can claim at the moment (and i thing noone could at any moment).
At the time I believe there are 2-3 regs who can achieve around 50cev while 3-5 tabling and maybe 5-6 more while 2-4 tabling.

Back in the days when spinlyzer was legit, i never saw a player with huge volume, and therefore 5-7 tabling, having more than 40-42 cev. All players who had more than 50cev had less than 15-20k games in a year or more, which means they where playing 2-4 tables.

If anyone could win 100s with 50+cev while 6-7 tabling right now, he would be wasting a lot of money by not playing 500s or 1000s. Even with staking the EVprofit would be way higher than playing 100s.

As far as an adequate sample concerned, I think Freeqone is a bit exaggerated. I think 5-10k games is ok to take a grasp on someones game and 15-20k to be 80-90% sure. Of course someone with 30-40cev would need more games to be sure, maybe 30-40k, but I would aggree with Jeffrey here that a reg with 50+ cev would have small variance in his profits as well as his cev.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:54 PM   #440
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

Is the new structure (increasing and changing 3x, 5x..) stills profitable? Anyone has a point about it?
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:51 PM   #441
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by ChicagoRy View Post
What's the rake on it 7845?

Poker rooms have been trying to find a way to turn short handed SNGs into lotteries for years, but the players largely seem to push back on formats that clearly have no profit potential. We'll see if that continues to hold true.
They succeeded with BLASTPoker
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Old 07-17-2019, 07:27 PM   #442
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by TheMagicBR View Post
Is the new structure (increasing and changing 3x, 5x..) stills profitable? Anyone has a point about it?
Rake is still the same %. Variance should technically be reduced a tiny bit assuming the play remains the same as they would have at 4x and 6x. That may or may not be the case though as you also won't see those guys that just punt the 2x games as often.
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Old 07-18-2019, 11:07 AM   #443
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Originally Posted by AALegend View Post
They succeeded with BLASTPoker
Have they? There's not much traction online with it for discussion/searches.

I don't know much about that one, just that it's 4 handed and a random timer times down and then you're all in until someone wins. How long is the timer variable?
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:40 PM   #444
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

I think cEV variance is really difficult to get a true gauge on. It takes a huge sample size to equate for coolers. It's not just Pre-Flop coolers, but post-flop ones that need to even out as well. It's the post-flop ones that destroy your cEV, because you often end up having close to zero equity in those situations.

I'm finding it best to just not check cEV too frequently. Last thing you want to be doing is making adjustments based on it when sometimes you could be playing perfectly fine and just getting into a lot of not ideal situations that can't be helped.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:51 PM   #445
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

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Have they? There's not much traction online with it for discussion/searches.

I don't know much about that one, just that it's 4 handed and a random timer times down and then you're all in until someone wins. How long is the timer variable?
It actually depends on the multi. Small multis play 3 levels (2 mins each), biggest multis go 5-6 levels before blast.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:43 PM   #446
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

What are starting stacks?

Time wise, that's nowhere near a no edge game if it starts similarly to spins on most major sites.
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:43 PM   #447
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Re: 222,222 Spin&Go Games: Endurance Challenge

The level structure is also different depending on the multis, though level 1 is always 30bb with ante. Level 2 is 15bb max effective, but past that it's a bit variable. Also, the levels are only 2 minutes as opposed to the more standard 3 minute spin levels.

https://www.888poker.com/official-blast/
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