$20 deep shove w/ A7o - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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$20 deep shove w/ A7o

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03-10-2011 , 09:46 AM

De_Evolution

banned

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 853

[converted_hand][hand_history]Full Tilt, $20 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #8160212

Hero (SB): 1,500 (75 bb)
BB: 1,500 (75 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7

Hero raises to 40, BB raises to 120, Hero raises to 1,500 and is all-in

About 15 hands in villain is a losing player, 3bets very high (60%+).

Only info so far:
Limp chk KJ7 flop minraise lead As turn check/fold 3 river @ 20

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03-10-2011 , 10:34 AM

tjobim

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 448

is the 3 bet % is 60 this shoev seems ok to me. u could limp also.

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03-10-2011 , 01:24 PM

magnanimity

grinder

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 553

I'd shove.

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03-10-2011 , 02:16 PM

crush

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 679

IMO 15 hands is too small sample, maybe he ran well few hands?

I don't like shove becuase we risk too much, and if he get called we are crushed.

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03-10-2011 , 02:37 PM

JSpazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,694

even if he's 3betting 60% this is pretty marginal and 60% is really a ****ton of hands and it will likely be just running hot over 15 hands

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03-10-2011 , 03:03 PM

Punch Dancer

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,694

I can't do the math at work, but it's likely really really really awful to shove this here.

Are you accounting for gameflow?(very likely this 3b is gonna be stronger than the ones before)

have you seen what he's 3b'ing?

How does he play postflop if you flat? (I'd prob flat here)

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03-10-2011 , 03:29 PM

De_Evolution

banned

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 853

Only info is what in the OP, im sure though I folded a couple of buttons after his first 2-3 3bets and im pretty sure he 3bet every button open so far bar maybe one.

Well he attacked the turn sort of with bad sizing and gave up on river so Im assuming he going to be aggressive.

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03-10-2011 , 04:23 PM

Punch Dancer

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 4,694

Given that you've folded a few buttons and you're only 15 hands in I'm not sure why ur giving us a rough estimate of his 3b %. Just say like 3b 4/5 times or w/e. The smaller the sample, which is seeming really small, the more I think he's prob strong given gameflow.

Shoving is kinda spewy. If you think he's really loose in 3b'ing just flat and play vs a wide range. large spr(which makes flatting better, and 3b'ing worse at the same time) and we're IP(same).

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03-10-2011 , 06:10 PM

ohly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,696

punch dancer's presence makes me posting redundant

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03-10-2011 , 08:57 PM

#10

Sol Reader

The Situation

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 9,380

Ugh I'd rather call, and that's not good.

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03-10-2011 , 09:06 PM

#11

dhcg86

banned

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 12,410

Id rather 4b to 360 and THATS not good ( maybe)

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03-10-2011 , 09:19 PM

#12

Sol Reader

The Situation

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 9,380

I think 360 would be a bad sizing for a 4bet, but 4betting could be fine except villain will likely be cognizant of the fact that he's been very aggro and may respond to this in a manner that is difficult to predict. Think it's much easier to just fold. If you're suited or have J9 or something I think calling's best, so I don't think calling A7 is going to be that awful, def not as bad as jamming.

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03-11-2011 , 04:49 AM

#13

Ellegance

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 240

Only 15 hands in this is a pretty awful move even if you're facing a maniac and even then it's debatable.
I'd normally always let this one go here but occasionally in spots like this i might flat if i'm sure i'm ahead of villian's range.

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03-11-2011 , 08:49 AM

#14

JSpazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,694

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sol Reader

imo a 4bet would be a good play vs a good player but you can't take this bet vs a $20 donk. 4betting small is not good vs him coz he's not gonna respect it and 4betting big makes us committed when he 5bet jams and we need like 25-30% equity to call it off

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03-11-2011 , 08:58 AM

#15

De_Evolution

banned

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 853

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punch Dancer

I was just basing it on his frequency and yeah its a pretty poor sample size but I have played 5k games ish and dont remember any times I could 3bet from the blinds like more than 3 times in a row so either hes extremely lucky or being a donk and 3betting every hand he gets like most other losing players.

But yeah this is a fold pre, I dont like flatting given what he's doing pf unless its something like J9/Q9 etc, flatting if suited though probably.

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03-11-2011 , 09:39 AM

#16

miniwiz

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,971

Shoving is spewy,pretty easy call preflop.

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03-11-2011 , 09:55 AM

#17

borderline

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,356

Idk why ppl do this.

Just fold or 4bet to 320/fold

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