Ok. So, here is the thing. Im a winning 15s player with something around 10k games (yeah..not to big of a sample) (yeah..i should move UP but im a NIT).
So, my friend plays 15s too and today he told me that he shoves over MR any Ax 19-25bbs deep.

He has a small sample but he is winning 1,6bb/hand shoving A2-A7 19-25bbs deep.

Out of curiosity i filtered my hands on my database A2-A7 OOP, calling a MR and my wins are 18bbs in 654 hands.

When my opponent is raising more than 60% im shoving A2-A7 so, my winning shoving this hands are 1bbs/hands.

So, i know its a small sample, but i think 18bbs/654 hands is REALLY LOW.

Should i just start shoving this hands OOP readless??

I know they play poorly postflop but i thought i could do better than shoving by flatting. (i guess im wrong).

Maybe its just variance?! If a reg could filter his database and tell me what he found it would be great!
Maybe im just bad postflop. LOL


Thanks a lot.

Completely readless 20bb+ for me it's a standard flat up to A7 which is borderline especially suited, and I think it's better expectation than shoving against fish. If it's reg it becomes a shove (or we gain reads for wide opening which is usually a few hands).

Seems to me that your current winrate when calling is 2,75bb/100 hands.

And you are asking if you should switch to a strategy where you make 1bb/100 hands?

Calling A2-A7 20-25bb OOP I believe is standard against general population.

Yeah. I know flatting is kinda of std readless, but i wanna know if im playing it badly post or what.

Wisher, my winrate is like 2,75bb/100hands, but my friends winrate is 1,6bb/hand (160bb/100hands). Huge difference.

I have never filtered my database before, so idk if 2,75bb/100hands is a bad winrate.
Maybe 160/100 is just because of sample size?!

As i said, when villain is oppening wide im shoving up to A7 and my wirate is 1bb/hand (100bbs/100hands).

Thanks a lote guys. Sorry about the bb/hand and bb/100hands. Hope its clear now.

readless 20-25bb prob shove somthing like A5o+ A2s+
if he open wide you can shove any Ax

Really depends on villains tendencies but I think readless (this is also relevant to the population tendencies of your stake level) shoving A7o+ and any suited Ax is standard. For the people flatting suited aces at 25bb, go use the free trial of ICMIZER and plug in some ranges, you'd be surprised how well A2s is doing.

It's not what is doing well and what not - it's what have better expectation. Shoving AA preflop as 3bet is also doing pretty well for example.

Agreed, but A2s and A7o have a very similar expectation, and if we're shoving A7o, why not shove A2s as well? Obviously depends on villain tendencies, but think about why we're 3betting in the first place.

The reason we 3bet is to cap the range that villain can open profitably from the small blind/button. In constructing a readless 3betting strategy at 25bb, suited Ax have good enough expectation to shove and make a decent amount of chips immediately, while turning a hand that isn't very easy to play post flop into a hand that prevents villain from opening x% profitably.

I'm not saying flatting is wrong, but I'm saying these hands can be used to combat the high opening % of most populations, especially at the 15's.

Not shoving A7o readless for a start but that's not the point.

So we will 3bet to cap a range readless? Really? And we will cap it by doing something that's actually with worst expectation than another action (flatting)? You do understand that if our opponent opens range that does bad vs 3bet shove from A2s and does even worse against flat from A2s (which is what better expectation of flatting means) we are actually "capping" his opening range even more by flatting? To be honest I am not sure you understand the whole idea behind taking an optimal action against average population tendencies.

Also you can build a 3bet-happy image in other ways without having to take suboptimal lines. But I guess that's really another topic.

Depends on villain, but I wouldn't see shoving low A with 20+ bb as a good decision. I mean you risk 20 bb to win 3 - this doesn't sound like a good plan.
I believe better strategy with low A usually is flat mixed with some 3bets. Frequency of 3bets depends on villain, your 3bet frequency by that moment (if it is comperably high, i would stick to flatting), how easy villain calls 3bets, folding to 3bet cbets etc.

i like 3betting with low with aces that aren't suited to a-7.. sometimes a-6 villain dependent.

when i flop the ace and i check raise, i fairy often have them shoving with any piece of that board, nice like trick i picked up

pretty strange they bet an A high flop, in a 3 bet pot once checked to, even more strange that they get it in with like second pair when you could easily have like kings or even slowplays Ax

The key to this strategy is having a wide 3b range (only if heyre opening wide) so your image suffers and you get paid off with a made hand

No shame in 3b folding when it induces a bluff later in the match