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15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? 15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2?

12-02-2011 , 07:16 PM
    Poker Stars, $14.69 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 2 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    SB: 620 (20.7 bb)
    Hero (BB): 380 (12.7 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with J T
    SB raises to 60, Hero calls 30

    Flop: (120) 9 6 J (2 players)
    Hero checks, SB checks

    Turn: (120) 8 (2 players)
    Hero bets 90, SB calls 90

    River: (300) T (2 players)



    Reads: he checked back AKXhh flop as PFR with K9o and then called 2 barrels on blank turns.

    In retrospective, I should have probably lead the flop since he doesnt cbet his medium strength hands.

    But as played, do we shove this river, c/c or c/f?
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote
    12-02-2011 , 09:19 PM
    C/f , he almost always has as least some showdownvalue when he calls the turn and he will probably not turn his pairs into a bluf in if you check so just check and hope he checks behind, betting is too thin imo when a lot of his possible holdings just made a straight and he will most likely not call a bet with worse hands anyway
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote
    12-02-2011 , 11:07 PM
    I like small bet, fold to raise...against a passive station
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote
    12-02-2011 , 11:08 PM
    i mean, why not?
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote
    12-03-2011 , 05:02 AM
    he folds pair type hands to a shove?
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote
    12-03-2011 , 08:54 AM
    I think I c/f. I wanna b/f but the stack sizes are just so gross. c/c is obv worst
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote
    12-03-2011 , 09:17 AM
    Shoving accomplishes 2 things:

    1) He can call with worse 2p hands.
    2) He won't be able to bluff you.

    I'm wondering if reason 2 makes sense. If he decides to bluff you a decent amount of the time, you'd probably have to fold (since we don't have a read he's bluff happy). So betting ourselves, and thus eliminating the option of getting bluffed, can that be a good thing? Normally I'd say if you think he can bluff, you should just c/c, but I don't think we can c/c in this spot without reads that he can bluff here. But not knowing that he can bluff here also goes against betting ourselves so we can't get bluffed, because if he never bluffs than betting to protect against bluffs is stupid.

    I really don't know what to think about the above, so I thought I would just write about it and see what others have to say about it. It sounds silly to me, but maybe there's some merit to it.
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote
    12-03-2011 , 10:21 AM
    reason 2 is actually a reason to check
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote
    12-03-2011 , 11:46 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLoner
    reason 2 is actually a reason to check
    It depends how good (or crazy) the opponent is really. It's a great spot to bluff once it gets checked to you since almost no one checks a made straight oop on the river in this spot.
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote
    12-03-2011 , 02:41 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by filth
    he folds pair type hands to a shove?
    i dont know. the average player at $15s most likely wont fold worse 2 pair and fold his 1 pair hands. do you think thats a reasonable assumption?
    15$ hyper - thin vbet otr with top 2? Quote

          
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