$15 HT - Very though river spot IMO - Heads Up SNG and Spin and Gos -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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$15 HT - Very though river spot IMO

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10-01-2012 , 09:11 AM

ragna

journeyman

Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 342

V seems to be reg, no other reads.

Poker Stars $14.69+$0.31 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t10/t20 Blinds - 2 players - View hand 1929061
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN/SB: t415 20.75 BBs
Hero (BB): t585 29.25 BBs

Pre Flop: (t30) Hero is BB with J

BTN/SB raises to t45, Hero calls t25

Flop: (t90) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t45, Hero calls t45

Turn: (t180) K

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t91, Hero calls t91

River: (t362) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets t234 all in, Hero ???

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10-01-2012 , 09:25 AM

slinkie

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 283

Doesn't seem that hard, you have 3rd pair with a poor kicker on a board that has straights and flushes made as well as overcards

One thing we'd need to know is calling tenancies off the villain oop pre flop and cbet percentages etc

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10-01-2012 , 09:44 AM

Malah

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 322

i like your check/call on flop and turn, because the turncard is considered a 'good barrelcard'. River is scarecard, also for your opponent, and i don't think he will continue bluffing with his pure air here often enough for this to be a call.

i am curious to hear opinions on what kind of rivers we could call comfortably here?

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10-02-2012 , 03:56 AM

riveredu

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 481

Easy fold otr. What about folding turn even though its a good barreling card? Majority of rivers are going to be bad for us so we are going to be check folding river way too much imo.
In game I call turn fold river.

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10-02-2012 , 04:08 AM

++++

centurion

Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 163

Quote:

Originally Posted by riveredu

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10-02-2012 , 04:10 AM

ohly

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,696

besides QJ he rarely has pure air on the river so i doubt that a random reg bluffs you off the better hand alot. also you are far from the top of your range here, so it's not like you are ever getting run over by folding this.

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10-02-2012 , 04:45 PM

yay

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 3,059

i call turn, call river on no spade 2-4, K, T, A. 6 not sure, J and 8 not sure if we should lead or c/c. J prob c/c, 8 prob jam. folding turn doesn't seem to bad, i don't think people barrel THAT much on avg, even it's a good barrel esp on 15$ hypers. but you do get alot of checkbacks on the river, too. so in a 15$ vs random unknown reggish player folding river atleast doesn#t seem horrible. but i'm a station and we have a purrrrrrrrrrr.

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10-02-2012 , 06:35 PM

arlecchino76

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,632

looks like an easy fold on the river

Can I suggest a different approach ( and if it's bad I would really appreciate someone explaining it to me )
c/r the flop to 120?

1. on this scary board I am happy to win a hand with my middle pair even if it means folding out his air , coz villain can barrel me of my pair fairly easy on later streets.

2. Even if I get re raised and fold it's still cheaper then calling another bet on the turn
and I have to fold to a lot of scary cards on the turn/river

basically is FE that we get from c/r the flop > equity of our pair on this board.

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10-02-2012 , 06:48 PM

yay

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 3,059

c/r is just lazy imo

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10-02-2012 , 06:59 PM

#10

arlecchino76

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,632

I love lazy

, SN on Carbon lazybob76

lol

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10-02-2012 , 11:04 PM

#11

BitchiBee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 24,622

name a hand other than qj you beat, go ahead do it

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10-03-2012 , 03:28 AM

#12

yay

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 3,059

maybe i wasn't really clear, i'm folding THIS river.

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10-03-2012 , 09:48 AM

#13

JSpazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,694

yh well played. can't really c/r flop coz his range should be pretty value heavy here, seeing as he opened >2x and cbetted a flop that hits us more than him, so we're pretty much only getting it in vs better and when we do our backup draw is a crappy backdoor. fold river too, you're pretty much relying on him to play a bunch of hands like Q7 or J5 like this, which is kinda unlikely considering he's an unknown reg

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10-03-2012 , 11:47 AM

#14

arlecchino76

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,632

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSpazz

yh well played. can't really c/r flop coz his range should be pretty value heavy here, seeing as he opened >2x and cbetted a flop that hits us more than him, so we're pretty much only getting it in vs better and when we do our backup draw is a crappy backdoor. fold river too, you're pretty much relying on him to play a bunch of hands like Q7 or J5 like this, which is kinda unlikely considering he's an unknown reg

but then calling his turn bet is even more wrong, we are losing equity with almost every card that hits the board, on the turn we no longer have 2nd but 3rd pair, and we lost any chance of making straight or even a week flush.

Calling the turn bet is what? Hoping that our 3rd pair is good, and that villain wont bet the river ?

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10-03-2012 , 12:14 PM

#15

yay

veteran

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 3,059

you know we get 3:1 right?

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10-03-2012 , 12:38 PM

#16

arlecchino76

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,632

Yeah, but I don't think we can look at this hands that simple, u can assume that villain is going to bet on a lot of rivers too so that has to be taken into account so we are not realistically getting 3:1.
When we call the turn we need to be prepared to call another bet on the river knowing that our hand has very little chance to improve. Without being prepared to call the river bet calling the turn bet doesn't make sense.
We can safely call the river bet only if 2-4 or K no spade or 8 hits, so we need more then 3:1 on the turn, imo.

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10-04-2012 , 07:53 AM

#17

Malah

journeyman

Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 322

i can see the merit of CR'ing on flop, cause c/c puts our hand kind of face up in the sense: we don't have TP or FD (true?) and as a result we will get barreled a lot. So, the arguments that were brought up in this topic indicating turncall is marginal also apply to call on flop? Never folding flop though.
I do think if we choose to CR we have to get it in on that flop, cause there can be many draws playing back and even if we stumble upon TP , there is ~20% to improve.

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10-04-2012 , 08:22 AM

#18

miniwiz

old hand

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 1,971

I'd be inclined to fold turn,i'd def shove this river if i called turn tho.

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