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$11 Straight draw facing all in

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12-07-2010 , 06:46 PM

dandy warhol

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 238

I was facing a villain who was tight and passive. He rarely bluffed and bet conservatively, which maybe should have caused me to make a different decision in this hand, but I thought given the stacks it was worth a gamble to end the game. Plus after he goes all in it's not much more to call. I'm getting pot odds which make this zero EV (assuming he's not on a flush draw or something). What do you think?

Poker Stars $11.00+$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t25/t50 Blinds - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter By DeucesCracked Poker Videos

Hero (BTN/SB): t2295 45.90 BBs
BB: t705 14.10 BBs

Pre Flop: (t75) Hero is BTN/SB with T

Hero raises to t150, BB calls t100

Flop: (t300) Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t150, BB raises to t555 all in, Hero calls t405

Turn: (t1410) 6

(2 players - 1 is all in)

River: (t1410) 8

(2 players - 1 is all in)

Spoiler:

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12-07-2010 , 07:15 PM

Stephen730

journeyman

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 209

Don't 3x pre when stacks are 14 BB. I'm checking behind so often on a flop like this if villain A: is tight and passive and B: calling 3x OOP while shallow-stacked. I expect this flop to just smash villain's range. I think calling the all-in is ok, that's like the best play you made in this hand.

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12-07-2010 , 07:34 PM

dandy warhol

journeyman

Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 238

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen730

Don't 3x pre when stacks are 14 BB.

So because his stack is 14 BBs, I shouldn't 3x pre even though mine is 46 BBs?

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12-07-2010 , 07:46 PM

Taediumvitae

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 225

yeah i dont like the 3x, what would your plan be if he shoved pre? its a big chunk to give away.

i dont really mind the cbet too much, but to discuss it more you'd need a clearer picture of what his 3x call range is at 14bb and i have no idea how to construct that range. does he shove Ax Kx Qx pre + how much have you been 3x ing etc etc

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12-07-2010 , 07:47 PM

borderline

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,356

your stack isn't 46bb.

your stack is 14bb.

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12-07-2010 , 07:49 PM

Taediumvitae

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 225

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandy warhol

So because his stack is 14 BBs, I shouldn't 3x pre even though mine is 46 BBs?

that is correct. the effective stack is the stack that matters in nlhe. the maximum of ur 46bb you will ever be able to play in the hand is 14bb, so the 'effective stack' is 14bb... whether it is you or your opponent on the short stack you should still play the hand as if you were both only 14bb deep

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12-07-2010 , 07:52 PM

borderline

banned

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4,356

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taediumvitae

yeah i dont like the 3x, what would your plan be if he shoved pre? its a big chunk to give away.

??? I don't know what you're saying here.. but if you're saying to 3x/fold, lol. even 2x/fold is bad (usually)

let's assume he min-raised instead of shoving pf (which I think you should do so that you don't get 3bet shoved by Q7/K5)

100+100+605/605 = 805 / 605 = 1.33 to 1 = ~42.918% equity needed..

guy would have to be a SUPER NIT, for us to 2x/fold here correctly.

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12-07-2010 , 07:55 PM

raised by jews

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,847

it is ok to minraise fold with stacks like at times. That being said, if your going to minraise call with a hand like this then u might as well just shove so that he doesnt come over the top with hands like Kx or Qx.

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12-07-2010 , 08:09 PM

Taediumvitae

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 225

Quote:

Originally Posted by borderline

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.356% 38.65% 00.71% 3256155744 59393790.00 { JTo }
Hand 1: 60.644% 59.94% 00.71% 5049592356 59393790.00 { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q8s+, JTs, A2o+, K6o+, QTo+ }

this isnt even a SUPER nitty range

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12-07-2010 , 08:17 PM

#10

Taediumvitae

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 225

so im saying he is giving away a ton of chips if he is raise folding, and he is never going to be good if he is raise calling

Edit: btw i think 2x/calling JTo is pretty terrible v a tight conservative player 14bb deep, even if you were right on 43% getting priced in ur basically giving up all you edge. @ 43% there is no difference between calling and folding, its like zero ev. and im sure that if the guy is a conservative nit most regs will usually have an edge of 5-10%(depending on blinds and time remaining)

Last edited by Taediumvitae; 12-07-2010 at 08:27 PM.

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12-08-2010 , 12:02 AM

#11

DOOM@ALL_CAPS

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,326

I'm shoving pre. As played, calling flop all day. BTW, 3x'ing is pretty bad here

Last edited by DOOM@ALL_CAPS; 12-08-2010 at 12:12 AM.

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12-08-2010 , 12:11 AM

#12

daviid

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,639

dont 3x. rest is super std.

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12-08-2010 , 09:36 AM

#13

Meteoric

journeyman

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 285

Quote:

Originally Posted by dandy warhol

I'm getting pot odds which make this zero EV (assuming he's not on a flush draw or something).

What do you even mean by this? I think you'd see a FD here a lot, and I don't see how you can consider your equity by neglecting it.

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12-08-2010 , 10:52 AM

#14

youcheckibet

centurion

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 105

Hi OP,

When stacks are at this stage min raising will have the same effect as a 1.5x -2x raise against the villain that you described. Considering how he is tight passive, I am +1 with whoever said that board hit his pre flop calling range. Also, he’s invested a significant % of his stack preflop and would also go as far to say that he will try to get to showdown with you with Qx type of hands – regardless of the fact that he is tight and also more likely if you were an agro throughout the match.

Your cbet will only fold out PP’s and Ax’s on this board so checking to try and make the best hand is definitely your best option.

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12-08-2010 , 12:43 PM

#15

JSpazz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 6,694

minraise pre ainec, I dislike 3xing about as much as shoving. Also calling the jam is a PokerStove spot, tho I think we def have the odds here

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12-08-2010 , 10:05 PM

#16

mela

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 3,228

Yeah, 2x/folding is perfectly fine w/ this stack size and JTo imo. As TaediumVitae said, 2x/calling all day w/ JTo should be a leak.

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