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08-16-2019 , 09:20 AM
PokerStars - 15/30 NL (3 max) - Holdem - 2 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (SB): 40.07 BB
BB: 9.93 BB (VPIP: 53.33, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q 4

Hero raises to 2 BB, BB raises to 9.93 BB and is all-in, Hero ???

Just played on Stars and this hand stuck in my mind.

According to a btn minraise chart, Q5s is the lowest Q to minraise on the btn.
The previous hand I doubled up with KQo against QJo on a K-high board, and BB has showed hands in a pretty wide range, though we've only played 15 hands.

As played do we call the 7.9 BB or do we minraise - fold in this situation?
My read is BB is wide enough to justify a call, but mathematically...? Poker-math isn't very strong with this one
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08-16-2019 , 09:58 AM
The chart you're looking at is most likely for 3 handed play on the button at 25bb. It is not in any way applicable to 10bb heads up play. GTO does not minraise at this depth, but you can minraise value if your opponent is not isoing enough, or some trashy hands that dont flop well if your opponent is really tight. I'd still limp Q4s vs both of those types of opponents.

As played you need 40% equity to call so this is probably a fold, and the reason that gto doesn't minraise at this depth.
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08-16-2019 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valuecutting
The chart you're looking at is most likely for 3 handed play on the button at 25bb. It is not in any way applicable to 10bb heads up play. GTO does not minraise at this depth, but you can minraise value if your opponent is not isoing enough, or some trashy hands that dont flop well if your opponent is really tight. I'd still limp Q4s vs both of those types of opponents.

As played you need 40% equity to call so this is probably a fold, and the reason that gto doesn't minraise at this depth.
I found the charts on a strategy site (free), so I can't be sure. Was said to be for heads up short stack play, but I was 40BB vs 10BB. GTO is very new to me, so I can't really say much about it. I've used Nash charts for heads up play (push/fold), but that's about as into charts as I am.

PokerTracker says about ~50% in calculations, and I'm guessing it's kinda obvious what transpired;

...Hero calls 7.93 BB

Flop: (19.87 BB, 2 players) A 3 4

Turn: (19.87 BB, 2 players) 4

River: (19.87 BB, 2 players) T

BB shows 9 7 (One Pair, Fours)
(Pre 45%, Flop 23%, Turn 0%)
Hero shows Q 4 (Three of a Kind, Fours)
(Pre 55%, Flop 77%, Turn 100%)
Hero wins 19.87 BB
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08-16-2019 , 01:58 PM
you need to consider your equity vs the range that he is shoving, not vs his exact hand that he had
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08-16-2019 , 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by valuecutting
you need to consider your equity vs the range that he is shoving, not vs his exact hand that he had
Of course, and I know that. PT says 52% against opponent, before knowing opponents exact hand, that happens to almost be the 55% I have preflop against his 97s
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08-16-2019 , 06:33 PM
are you saying that pt4 is giving you your equity vs his range?
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08-17-2019 , 03:30 AM
afaik PT equity is vs random hand
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08-17-2019 , 04:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by none888
afaik PT equity is vs random hand
^This
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08-27-2019 , 10:36 PM
He has under 10bb, pretty sure it is a jam or fold spot. q4 suited heads up would be a jam in my books, nothing to be gained from min raising, unless you have a read that he is overfolding, with only having played 15 hands I doubt you have. Just jam, hit your queen and load the next one
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08-28-2019 , 12:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeirA
^This
He doesn't have a random hand, so it's an irrelevant point. Unless you think he's jamming all of his 82o here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thaikiller
He has under 10bb, pretty sure it is a jam or fold spot. q4 suited heads up would be a jam in my books, nothing to be gained from min raising, unless you have a read that he is overfolding, with only having played 15 hands I doubt you have. Just jam, hit your queen and load the next one
This one is mostly a limp without reads, not sure why you think it's a jam or fold spot at nearly 10bb.
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08-28-2019 , 09:59 AM
I would never raise Q4cc at 10bb on the btn.
Btter limp and call and isonai or play a limped pot.
I would only raise if I knew that he plays something like 40-45% VPIP on the BB,and he is overfolding to MR in these blind levels.
It's definitely not a random hand!
He can shove most of his pairs,Suited connectors,Kxs,Ax so in general you won't find yourself in a pretty good spot calling there.
I would limp this particular hand!
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