Heres an idea... not a great one but I think it could be ok

For anyone who regularly buys pieces, when they open up a thread and elect not to buy a piece because of newfound information in the thread(whether it be markup, the schedule, the opponents poor results, whatever) make a post just saying "I will not be purchasing action".

This will inform other buyers of the levels of disinterest without having one person get screwed over too badly as tourbound did. If people came in and say 30 people express disinterest in one sentence, that would give investors the knowledge that this may not be a good buy without questioning someone's character or putting them on the spot too much.

Seems impractical to get a large number of people to do this. Who would lead the charge and be the first to do so?

meh thats tough tho, and its kinda unfair to sellers...if someone has a grudge against them, it could make things tough on a seller. also, who gets to decide who can comment on packages? Just because someone has bought 5% of a couple 1k packages here and there (maybe 300+ people) doesnt mean they should get to comment on someones package.

If you don't like the price/value of an item in the store you don't go a berate the shop owner. You either negotiate a fair price or you walk away and find the item elsewhere. I think it fine to say (like many do) i'd buy at lower markup then OP can decide if he wants to reduce or not sell.

People are free to invest in who they want. You need so much run good in MTTs with large fields how can anyone argue so much other if someone is good value at 25% and not 30%. Some people in this forum just want a sweat and even if they pick a slight -ev horse after markup its still going to be way more +ev than putting it on the lottery or horses. No one can accurately say what ROI you have in the WSOP 1k's / ME. Tourbound (in this case) has shown his stats in OP you make you own decisions if you think he is a good player in the WSOP fields or not.

People who claim they are buyers who launch hate on threads need to walk away quietly or negotiate markup %. If they think they are getting ripped off here just go to PTP and see how people get airfares, hotels etc paid for as part of these stakes! Some of the biggest scores on this staking forum have come from players who went on downswings with low online ROI's that then binked a major and suddenly their stats look totally different.

Re: WSOP backing.

To you who know your stuff well, how many people out there are backed for entire wsop packages? Are there a lot of grinders out there who play like a full schedule with an abi of $1xxx backed or is everyone just selling %? Is it acceptable to post a general "seeking WSOP backing" message in the marketplace or where does one go to look? I kind of don't know where to start, I'd prefer to be backed because I've just reached my happy place $$$-wise after binking big and having a disastrous summer in the wsop un-backed would take me out of there. So if anyone has any general information about who to ask (not necessarily who to pm for backing, but who have contacs) it'd be great if you could share them. And also I'd really like to hear comments/educated guesses on the number of people being backed, because if it's just a handful I'm not going to even bother trying. What kind of deals people are usually getting? Are they considered to be ongoing (like, if you end up in mu the investor can put you in future random events too)?

Also - in case I'll find nobody - what's supposed to be a reasonable mark-up for the wsop events? People who know their stuff could give examples on various buy-in events from 1ks to the 2,5ks to 5ks to the me. I'm of course asking for myself, but feel free to post as if it were any upper msmtter/hsmtter with decent live results. I always try to make the mark-ups as fair as possible although I know I could probably sell for higher, which is why I'm asking.

I don't even think large numbers are necessary. There likely is some hierarchy/order/grouping to buyers that buyers themselves are aware of so that some moderate sample of people saying something simple like this should be a reasonable indicator of where the market is at/trending on someone's/similar offer.

It really shouldn't be mass peer pressure or a sort of soft blacklisting that stops a buyer from buying a mediocre to bad package. There are a lot of ideas itt that aim to help protect the buyer. It starts with buyers protecting themselves, and I don't think it requires very large numbers to do so, just that larger numbers will likely make it more efficient.

The beauty of doing it Timex's way is that it's generally fair to everyone, requires almost no effort on the part of those who have decided to pass on the offer, and helps keep the marketplace efficient with feedback that possibly otherwise wouldn't be there, while hopefully helping prevent threads from getting derailed. You can make that comment in anyone's thread without going any further and nobody should have a complaint.

Everyone should have a Twitter account for updates.

The problem with timex's way is it doesn't state the reason you don't want action.

'I am not going to buy action' is not very useful feedback to a MP seller. The OP might be willing to reduce MU if that is the reason but without telling them how would they ever know?

It seems like often a seller also doesn't react well to criticism in his thread about specifics. Motivated good sellers who want to make things work for themselves in the marketplace I would hope would explore the why side themselves when notified of a no. The basic info of "I've looked it over and will not be investing" should be decent starting feedback for a seller if they look for other packages that buyer does/doesn't invest in, or send a PM saying hey what didn't you like, etc.

I think Timex's idea is decent for what it looks to do- provide some basic feedback buyer to buyer and even minimally to the seller about who looked and who passed. Can certainly understand sellers that want more detailed feedback but as a basic starting point for feedback it seems okay.

I also think it should be alright to come in and say "would you consider changing X,Y, or Z about this" but it rarely is as easy as that and leads to derails compared to "I looked it over and no thanks"- which can lead to as little or much followup as a seller wants.

I disagree with Timex's idea.

For example if George Lind posted I don't want to buy a package I wouldn't either. The casual investor would just assume 'George Lind is smarter than me in poker issues and if he has a reason than that's all I need to hear' and walk away.

George Lind is smarter than the casual investor. I don't see what that has to do with whether it's a good idea or not. Are you saying unsavvy investors can be duped into not spending money they really wanted to when faced with more information? That they don't actually read what they are possibly buying if someone else gives an opinion?

Which is it- that sellers want to protect their threads from any interference/potentially negative discussion, or they want constructive feedback that helps them adjust to something the community snaps up?

My issue with it is I don't think it's fair for someone to post I'm not interested in someones thread and not give a reason that they put their name to it.

Obviously the m.p would go to hell if people were allowed to post anything they chose to about each other in a negative way but in an extreme case such as the player has rolled in the past or is charging a ridiculous M.U then I don't have a problem with them posting this in the interest of protecting the M.P as a whole and not for the purpose of derailing someones thread out of personal spite.


edit: tbh I don't know what is the optimal solution... I just feel there needs some balance.

I agree that Timex's idea is good but it should most definitely include why they are not buying action. If it's a personal issue (other than something going wrong in a previous transaction between them) it should not be posted, and the "won't buy" comments should be aimed almost entirely towards unfair markup or unrealistic expectations of the player or if there's something else really wrong.

Hi, for the recent discussion on Tourbound68's packages, the posts have been moved to the selling shares online. I can see why he would want to discuss it here, but it is more appropriate in that subforum imo.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/16...l#post25611408

Can someone tell me the difference between live and online prices?? Do these change for the summer events?

You are going to have to define your questions a little more. Prices are set by the sellers.

When the players add fees (they call it "MU") it seems to me that each player is adding different amounts... I assume this is because of who they are and results and maybe what they intend to play. So, my question is do these fees change differently between online play and live? And do these fees change during different times of the year or tournaments, like the World Series of Poker?

They are related complete to what the player believes he can charge and sell. The idea is that the player sets a price that still offers a profit for the buyer. It is certainly up to the buyer to decide if the package is worth buying.

ok im new to the marketplace but was thinking about making a small venetian package, maybe 7 events for 3-4k. Im planning on making a few small online packages just to get my name out there. I missed the venetian events last summer but in 09 i played 6 of them and cashed in a 540 and got 6th in a 340 for just over 10k. 6 tourneys is a pretty worthless sample size obv but its better than nothing and ive final tabled local daily tourneys but thats not saying much.

I have decent sample size online especially on stars. ntanygd760 on stars and ftp, notanygd760 on ub.

Do you think i would be able to sell this package? Thanks in advance

another thing for you guys to take into consideration is watching for foreign tax issues...

1. make sure people know what they're doing in regards to cashing out, if they don't post anything about it clear it up with them beforehand

2. Foreign players, mainly canadians have the 30% withholding problem.

as a canadian I sold for the main last year and basically searched for a solution on how to deal with the withholding issue, i found no real continuity in the marketplace for this issue, some people from canada didnt even bring up the issue, some basically said ull get 70% of the winnings and have to wait for the rest, assuming i can get it (the weird thing is no one seemed to care about this)

for my main event action i took a more unique approach and basically explained that if i cashed for 30k or under investors would be paid the 100% up front and i would deal with getting the other 30% as part of my end, in the event of a bigger cash i think i specified that people would get back 85-90% up front and then the rest once i claimed back for the 30% withheld they would get whatever portion of that 30% i was able to get back...

i.e you have a 10% share in me for the main, i cash for 100k, you would have been paid 90% of your end (9k) upfront, i claim back for the final 30% (say 20k) and get 80% of it (16k) after fees taxes, etc, you would get 8% ($800 more instead of 10% (1k) because of the witholding fees, taxes, whatever...

im not saying this is the solution to this problem, but i think it's better than what most people did, and as a canadian i know witholding issues will always make it harder to sell live packages for wsop so i would like to hear any thoughts on this issue...

Is it considered unethical to put up a WSOP/Venetian package that includes only prelims then sell shares to the WSOP ME at the end of the series depending on results? If I brick the WSOP up until the ME, I'm probably going to be over poker and not wanting to play the main, so I didn't want to put both packages up now. But I wasn't sure if this was ethical or not based on what happened last year with people putting up several packages.

I'd just put up a package and tell investors your plan and give them priority for your M.E action if you play it. As long as people are upfront about it I can't see any issues.

agreed

I'm going to be doing a package with a lot of 1k, 1.5k, 2k, 2.5k's. I also want to include the $10,000 limit championship. I'm going to look like a rookie to investors. Do you many people will have a problem with that included? Thanks