MSauce

Had stanski made Day 2 and posted a thread in the marketplace called "Shares Auction" where he sold your shares to anyone interested at a higher markup, what would you/others think of this?

well i do not mod the marketplace. i'm just part of the peanut gallery.

anyway the debate itself is not bull****. i just keep reading these stories of poker players exposing themselves to all this drama and it seems senseless when they can make it go away by paying a tiny sum

thats a completely different situation, Bigstud and JP are friends, played a final table together, etc. JP was selling shares for an event the next morning, and bigstud couldn't give cash until later. I also bought shares for this event, told JP says "get me the money whenever" because we are pretty good friends and there is a mutual level of trust. I gave him cash way after the event started.

You, on the other hand had a full week attempt to collect or clarify action with someone you have never done a transaction with and weren't personal friends with.

And I tried to clarify his intentions through pm, posting in this thread, etc. I guess I should just cancel the action in the future, but i really had no reason to believe he didn't want his shares for whatever reason. I still don't get why he didn't want his shares in me, like at what point he decided that all of the sudden he didn't want to invest in me (i mean really, is it that much more convenient to give fricking $260 live than online?).

And he made repeated attempts to contact him through all means of communication he had.

I never thought I would consider this weak, and in the end its not but I think you need to give that to him. Sorry I hate to come across in this way but to me it goes to him and not some charity. Sorry for sounding this way.

Lets face it if you gave a crap about your reputation you would realize that the thread is filled with this opinion. 95% of 2p2 (that has responded here) has sided against you. Pay the freaking guy. If you dont, you dont care a damn bit about your reputation or poker in general, or this forum.

Pay him or go away forever. Not by mod rules, but on principle. Principle is what you keep speaking to and the precedent is set by the feedback in this thread. It's the Supreme Court and its a 8-1 vote. Stop referencing other cases this thread overrides.

F****ing pay him.

And lets face it Msauce, you know poker players. If you had any intent of paying him, you were at the WSOP. You know people there. IF YOU HAD ANY INTENT OF PAYING FOR THIS YOU WOULD HAVE JUST LEFT THE MONEY WITH A FRIEND AND PAYED HIM EVEN THOUGH YOU LEFT. Because of this option, youre a scammer to me.

Yes he's an idiot for not covering his butt and selling off your action. That's irrelevant at this point because you reserved pending paying him in Vegas and made that IMPOSSIBLE. Thats your fault man.

Stake me for 50% of ME next year. Pay me after the event, if I bust I'll be at the main entrance. If I win it, I wont be in Vegas. Sorry, can't pay out the winnings.

if my opinion still mattered in the marketplace at all I'd say not looking closely at this case will only lead to more problems down the road.

keep in mind that even if someone decided there was no malicious intent to freeroll stanski here one could still decide this behavior is not wanted in the marketplace.

if you reserve and decide (lol?) you are setting the conditions and the other party makes what looks like a very reasonable attempt to accomodate your conditions and you never call it off insisting it was never really on - I don't think it's particularly close from a "what should happen in the marketplace" stance.

Why is Msauce 100% bad guy in some of your minds? In same way he could freeroll by expecting to collect on stanski cash but not pay if he busts, Stanski could've not paid if he cashed but tried to collect if he busted. Not saying those were either of their intentions as it appears they just had different definitions of what "reserved shares" are, but this looks a clear case of shared blame since neither clarified how the action stood before the event.

This is where there is a clear distinction.

stanski made every reasonable attempt to clarify whereas MSauce made zero effort.

I am not sure if someone pointed this out, but this post by stanski on 07/01 pretty much implies that Msauce has action. No?

(paying in vegas) implies booked? I'm trying to stay out of this thread but this is absurd... Thats like saying someone who reserves a share and is (paying online) but hasnt paid yet is booked. Paying in vegas = not yet paid = not yet booked. It's pretty simple.

I would not send out an investor private message, give him my twitter, give him contact info for me and personal information, changed his share from (res) to (paying in vegas), say that my shares are sold out, if he was not 100% in my mind an investor. I mean if he wasn't an investor in my mind, i would easily sell a stupid little 2% share to any of my friends that wanted a share but weren't able to buy it because i was sold out. How it is not clear from all those things that I thought of him not as reserving shares, but already an investor is beyond me; if i didn't think he was an investor and that he had just reserved his shares, i would have of course looked elsewhere.

If I had lasted thru day 1, I was going to immediately go home and send another private message, since I sent a private message right before I start playing to him. I mean he failed to communicate to me at all, he just ignored everything, but in my mind it was not a big deal since he was in ****ing vegas (no idea why he wouldn't inform me he was leaving) and could easily stop by my table draw, which i posted on my twitter and was assuming he would follow/would just stop by and pay me.

MSauce, you just flat out don't get it. (paying in vegas) may not implied booked, but it implies a clear ****ing difference in my head when i change your share name from (res) to (paying in vegas). Like it implies that i think of you not as a reserved share anymore, that is the point. This proves that i 100% would have gotten freerolled, and no one on earth has any clue what would have happened if i cashed, because i'm pretty sure it would have went something like "hey here's your share minus what you were supposed to pay me, not a big deal for not getting me money in time." That's what was going to happen in my mind, unfortunately you are of the opinion that you would not take my money, but no one knows this for certain while pretty much everyone can tell from the way i treated you that i would 100% try and send you the money.

Honestly i wish i would have just ended this discussion with me feeling like i lost $400 in equity, because like seriously i could tell right from the very first discussion MSauce was too stubborn/busto/dumb/young whatever it was (not saying for sure he's any of them but its clear that something was off from the start) to ever change his opinion. Like no matter what people say ITT he will never ever change his opinion or compromise.

OK if thats the way you want to look at it. I was trying to draw a comparison between the PLO UFO situation and this one. In case of PLO, it was not clear if you had any action. He never summarized the action in a final post. I can see where the confusion arises. Just to be clear, I have no idea who you guys are and have no affiliation with either of you. I am out before you ask me to get out....

it's not that it makes anyone a bad guy necessarily.

but I'd argue that someone who creates multiple steps in order to secure an investment from them and then gets to be the arbiter of whether the person followed those steps closely enough for their satisfaction is probably not the type of behavior the marketplace should encourage or even really tolerate.

absent the word "booked" in general this is as booked as it gets unless the marketplace mods are ready to rule that no money exchanged always means no action regardless of whatever else has transpired- and have fun with that can of worms and what it means for threads.

/thread.

Way to again take something completely out of context and run with it, super standard from someone without a brain. Like you cannot be serious, i just keep shaking my head trying to figure out how anyone can take themselves seriously by taking that completely out of context, I meant by using that statement that i didn't flat out say "BOOKED," the exact word was never used. HOWEVER it is as close to ****ing implying it as you can get (like 95% of the responses in this thread ****ing understand it was 100% implied, and everyone in this thread understands that i 100% thought we were booked). You just are so ****ing stubborn and I am just amazed there are people in the world like you who just will not listen to anyone.

Look one response above yours. God I really wish i would have just given up on this because i could tell right away this kid was too much of a moron to ever change his mind on this matter, no matter if the entire ****ing planet told him he was wrong.

fwiw almost the same thing happened to me with PLOUFO and I paid up without much thought. If nine has cashed, he clearly would have paid since your share was reserved. Regardless of the time line and miss communication, Sauce you were clearly free rolling him here (unintentionally obv) and should just pay up imo.

Wow sauce just saw that you did the same thing to PLOUFO as well. Are you fighting this so hard because if you pay the 2% here you will be on the hook with the other investors you didn't pay?

nah, he really didnt intentionally do it to anyone imho. He just feels that he is right and will not give in.

I'd pay him, but thats just me.

Gl in the future to both of you, and hopefully this is a lesson to all

The problem with this is you're holding all of the money in question. You should address the problem to a resolution, just as you would if the money rested on your defense. For that matter, why not just escrow the money to someone reputable and have them send the proper party the money when the situation is resolved. Because as it is, you're getting 100% of the benefit from a situation that is 50% at best by simply stomping your foot and shaking your head.

BTW, you owe stanski $260 and a huge apology.

How about MSauce just goes on a "not allowed to reserve" list. He probably was not intending to, but he basically freerolled 2 people. MSauce will you agree not to reserve anymore, since it doesn't mean the same thing to you as to other people?

The whole reserve thing has struck me as stupid anyway. This is poker, you can't put it on layaway

Pretty much this, /thread.