The only comment i have is the main reason i thought it was booked was because in this thread, I changed msauce's label from (res) to (paying in vegas) in post 36,along with sending off that private message to every one of my investors. I forgot to change tarheelkid's to paid, but he was paid up as well at the time of that post. In my mind all my action was taken care of and it was a done deal.

so YOU made it his responsibility to contact you and then you left vegas before he did? seems pretty clear that you are in the wrong here MSauce

Who's fault it is that we didn't meet is not at all relevant to the discussion. Even if the reason we didn't meet and I never gave him cash was because I decided to run naked in the streets the last night in vegas and shoot up everything I saw and ended up in jail and forced to go somewhere far away and be held in a mental institution (this is not the case btw just an extreme example), it wouldn't change the fact that it was a share reservation that was never paid and not a booked share.

I want to add an example of someone who I did exchange cash with in vegas. GridIronJesse on 2p2 was selling shares for his main event and I reserved 1% again with the stipulation that I had to pay in cash in vegas. He agreed to this and since he wasn't in vegas while I was there, I told him via PM to "consider the 1% BOOKED" as to make sure that I didn't miss the start of the event. He responded notifying me it was booked and I ended up meeting one of his friends at the 2.5k and dropping off the money to him a day later. I never did this with Joe. I never told him to BOOK the action I simply said if we could meet up in vegas I would buy 2%. This is quite different and I'm sorry most of you are failing to see this distinction thus far.

I have lost a good bit investing in the marketplace mostly because I like pieces more of a sweat than anything else and have run fairly bad. I have always paid my shares and had no problem when people bricked from PCA, ME, 5k, 25k 6max, whatever. I would obviously not pick a small $260 share to start angling and scamming people in the marketplace and I urge you to believe that this is not the case.

If Joe had gone deep in the main event, I would've been upset and wished I had caught him in vegas before the event started to pay because I would have been 100% confident I did not have a piece of him because I had not officially booked the share (paid for).

Is there a single respected poster who believes MSauce to be in the right? Doubtful.

Sorry I'll try not to put words in your mouth and stuff. I don't think you're trying to scam, but I think there's a problem that's worth resolving.

You said pending references and then you posted again after references saying "Pm me if its ok for me to take 2% and we can setup meeting...glgl"

I just meant to point out that you clearly were aware of Joe's PMs and Joe's postings in this thread and didn't make any attempt to clarify things.

I understand that you interpreted things differently than Joe did. However, it does sorta seem to me that from Joe's perspective no clarification was really necessary but you should've seen that there was some confusion.


Yeah.. my bad.

I think maybe the main point of confusion is that Joe was gonna get in Vegas like right before he was gonna play. Did you not realize that's what was going on?

Its ok, and yes I get what you're trying to clarify I just frankly disagree. Someone sending me a generic PM they sent to anyone who reserved shares in the thread saying heres my twitter and real name etc to me doesn't change anything or make me feel any differently about whether my share is booked until I have paid for it in full.

And of course I didn't know that my time in vegas wasn't going to overlap with Joes or I never would have even reserved and asked to pay in vegas. I assumed (wrongfully) that like most of the 2p2ers he was there for more events than just the main and would be there the whole time I was there.

Since I am 20 and unable to play wsop events (the sick beat rolls on), there was no point in me staying during the main event so I left. When I LEFT vegas (remember, im not checking 2p2 while im there) I had not heard from Joe so I assumed he had sold off my shares and that my opportunity to take them was gone and wasn't going to work out since I couldn't pay him. The first message I got from Joe about paying for the shares was once I was already at home. I agree I should have responded to his PM saying that I was no longer interested since I couldnt pay in cash but I assumed texting him was sufficient.

One point further for me is think about if some guy (over a week before the event, maybe 2) that you didn't know said he wanted to reserve shares if he could pay in vegas and then you never met up with him and then when you PMd him he didn't answer and you started playing the event before you got in touch with him, would you really assume those were booked? Because I CERTAINLY wouldn't.

What did the text you sent to him when you left vegas say and when did you send it?

Wed @ 7:04 pm (relooking at it it was sent to 2804 instead of 3804)

"Hey this is msauce I'm not in vegas anymore so I'm not going to be able to meet up with you to give you the cash for the piece, gl in ME"

Here is the pm i sent when i arrived on tuesday, before registering for the event tuesday night, after confirming that we could meet up when i got in vegas and sending my message to all my investors. I sent this at about 10pm vegas time, literally it was the first thing i did because he was the only one i was meeting up to pay:
"Hey, can we meet up at somewher? I'm going to play 1c, text me at 3xx-4xx-3xxx and we can meet up at some point to pay your share, thanks!

-stanski "

The number i gave was correct but i never recieved a text from him. I assumed he would be in vegas the whole time i was there, he never told me his schedule or anything about when he would be in vegas. I just assumed hm, no big deal i'm getting there night before, i'm sure he'll be hanging around rio and it won't be an issue.

Msauce also sent that text after i had already busted the main event. I just don't understand why he didn't tell me it wasn't possible to meet up right before the main event because he wasn't in vegas until after i had already played, because like in most cases its not a big deal since most people are at/around the rio. If he had just told me that he didn't want the shares/wasn't in vegas at any time before i played, i could have instantly sold the shares which is frustrating.

fwiw, I had no idea you had busted the main event at that time. And I didn't respond to any PMs on 2p2 while I was in vegas because I wasn't on my computer and had class immediately when I got home on monday which is why it took me a while to sort out all your messages. Thats why I gave poeple i said I'd buy shares from my number and told them to text me while I was in vegas to meet up.

I guess my point lies on one clear distinction and if this is the case I'll make sure to never reserve shares on here again unless im paying them that second.

If you ask to reserve a share and then don't pay it before the event starts, is it considered booked? In my understanding it is not. Maybe I am wrong in this?

From my understanding if you reserve shares with someone you don't know and don't pay before the event your shares are NOT booked and your shares are usually sold to waitlisted investors.

Well I changed your share from (res) to (paying in vegas) and didn't even bother waitlisting anyone since every share was "paid" already in my mind. You never gave me your phone number or else i def would have called/texted when i got there :-(.

Your classification of (res) or (paying in vegas) should still amount to the same thing: an unpaid reserved share. These should be cancelled before the start of the event unless some explicit conversation takes place where the action being booked (like my example with gridironjesse) is clear by both parties even if the money is not paid.

And my number should have been in my initial PM to you asking you to contact me when we could meet up.

I really am sorry you feel that this wasn't your understanding but I simply cant fathom someone thinking a small share reservation online that was never paid for was equal to a paid booking. It's just something you simply cant do on the internet with people you don't know. I was just reading over another thread where someone said "Reservations that are not paid within an hour before the event will be cancelled." I think I'm right to assume most posters are adhering by this policy.

Edit: I'm going out for the night soon so I probably won't be able to respond for the rest of the night. I hope everyone will be able to see where I'm coming from and know that I'm not a scumbag simply trying to freeroll for pieces in tournaments. My history should speak on that behalf.

You are telling me you have an awesome marketplace reputation, and then to not trust randoms in the marketplace in the same post. I basically just figured it wasn't a big deal because you weren't a random in the marketplace, you were buying a ton of pieces that were being paid for in person, there is no way i can infer you were 20, weren't going to be around for the actual event, etc. Look over your pm's because you never gave me your phone number.

You said to let you know if/when i sell out. I did that. I let you know i sold out, posted multiple times in this threat that i sold out, pm'd you with important investor information, and pm'd you my phone number when i arrived in vegas to "arrange a meeting" like you asked. You never responded to any of this, how can i just automatically assume you are no longer in vegas? Like why couldn't you just tell me anything at any point about leaving.

I would have told you if I had been checking PMs and dealing with 2p2 matters in those days. Me not responding to your PMs before the event started should be a clear enough indication that the shares are no longer booked in my opinion. If I sold a 2% share to someone and he said we would meet up in vegas and I PMd him a couple times asking if he still could meet and he didnt answer I would obviously assume he no longer wanted the share. How could you still assume that it was booked? This is where I'm losing your logic...

well anyone not involved with this sees my logic but i could tell from your tone at first that there was 0 chance you would pay anything no matter what anyone else would say. This is why i decided not to argue, because your opinion literally will never change, but of course when other people start talking about it i have to say something because thats just how i am.

I understand and don't hold it against you that we don't agree. But its hard for me to take the other posters that seriously since most of them are your friends or people who know you much better than I. I could parade my friends that agree with me through this thread too but it isn't going to accomplish anything so I won't.

All I want to know is if or if not the precedent on 2p2 is that reserved shares are not booked till paid, because if so there is no discussion to be had. And this is my understanding of share reservation.

i think its pretty obvious that reserved shares are not booked, the discrepancy lies in if your exchange of PMs and intent to meet in Vegas qualifies as booking shares (which I'm not really sure of)

Just posting this to aid you.

This is our full PM history.

I texted at this point telling him I was not in vegas anymore and could not pay the share but evidently entered the number wrong so nothing was received.

It was at this point where I responded ITT expressing my concern.

The only person who posted with any association with me, that i have talked to this situation AT ALL with is noahsd.

You left out the PM i sent to all investors with my full name, facebook, twitter etc.

this was the only one besides NoahSD that made my spidey senses tingle. And NoahSD is a very known and respected poster so most will probably without reading the whole thread blindly take his supposed side. I'm not discounting the other posters I'm just saying I don't think its fair to say everyone in the world sees it your way and I'm an idiot for thinking otherwise.

yea i mean take my opinion fwiw but if i was stanski i would not be paying out MSauce in this situation if I had cashed, especially if the text that he claims to have sent to the wrong number could be confirmed. so basically i don't think MSauce owes anything

Yea forgot about brad, sorry about that, though we mostly just have played in the same game and he has never been the same "type of friend" noah has (i.e. me and noah talk about life, poker, money, etc. whereas me and brad have had maybe 10-15 conversations almost strictly about poker lifetime).

Recieved a PM from another plo ufo about a similar situation, perhaps he will post ITT...

Well MSauce himself made me aware of this issue.. So I don't see how, after reading it, I could not post itt at all.

I too took a 2% res from Msauce w/the same assumption that we would get up in vegas and he would pay for it. I fronted since he is a reputable poster who I see often and also cross referenced w/others for his legitimacy since he was someone I had to involuntarily meet up with for business purposes. After having about 39% unpaid atm for an event I am already done with I have found myself in quite the predicament.

Since MSauce only res. 2% he is the least of my worries but also the greatest concern at the same time. I post here specifically for the fact that when posters are reputable they are trustworthy. I ignorantly believe in that. The system we have on this site is what makes it work (I thought). When people come in and angle shoot the system.. it fails. Anyway, after I sold out my ME action I played it so the other 78% of my investors didn't waste equity in me only to return their money after there was no ME action for them to reinvest it in. Perhaps I am way off to assume this in the business we are involved in.

However, such players I have not collected from are all well known and highly reputable investors/players who, aside from Sauce, I have no worries that they will pay for what they asked for.

If someone came into my thread with 10 posts and found the marketplace and decided to just start spouting off "reserve X%" I would think somethings odd and perhaps not be so quick to include them in my count or maybe even investigate the request. However, when someone with over 1k posts says reserve and its a name I see often then my guard is not on its highest defense.

Not sure what else I can really do at this point but merely change my perspective of the 2+2 Marketplace. Perhaps MSauce was just trying to teach a lesson and I think he got his point across to me at least. I doubt I will ever experience this problem again since I got burned already. Just glad it was for a small % and early in my investing career.


Oh and maybe I misunderstood something but did I read that MSauce left vegas before the ME even started? Why wouldnt you tell people you know you never paid but knew you reserved shares from to pull your reserve and resell it before the tournament starts??
Don't you realize how hard it is to try and scramble last minute to take care of something like this. Regardless whether you are right or wrong here its still pretty f-in crappy to do that to players when you know how it would feel if the situation was reversed.
It wasn't right to make players track you down to get $ from you if A. you had no plans to be around and B. made yourself difficult to get into contact with (in this case).
^ just this part is rant.

Yes, agreed this **** will never happen to me again. I too blindly trusted the standard "hey its a reputable 2p2er who buys a ton of ****, he's fine since he didn't unreserve" system but never will again. Also, on what day and time did you leave vegas Msauce?

Interestingly, people in PLO ufo's thread who also had reserved shares i believe are still paying shares even though he has played and is still in the main event (correct me if this is wrong plo or if the guy is your friend or something that i think was asking if he still needed to pay after you had already played).

I made you aware of this post because I think it applies directly to yours too and yes you're right, it is a valuable lesson to learn.

About a week before I left vegas I posted in several ME threads saying I was interested in taking pieces (1-2%, tiny stuff) if they could meet me while I was in vegas. Most of these players were already in vegas (playing 1.5ks etc) and I was going to be there for 8 days leading up the main event so it didn't seem id have that hard of a time getting up with them.

As a point to make things easier on myself, I tried to PM all of the people I asked for shares with my number and telling them when id be in vegas. It turns out I didn't send my number to some of them and that was a mistake I made. By posting in several threads I was aware that I would not be able to meet up with all of them. If for whatever reason I was unable to meet up with them in vegas as in your case and stanski's, I assume the shares have not been booked.

As made CLEAR by the distinction in your own thread (plo ufo), reservations are not the same as Paid shares.

You don't even list my name here. How can you expect me to confirm this reservation and assume I've booked a piece of you if we never meet up and I'm not even listed in your booked area. This was your final post on action in your thread (listed out).

I made it (whether they chose to like it or not because they are not FORCED to take my action) the sellers responsibility to contact me via PM to meetup in vegas. Those who did not do that (plo ufo) until after the event have clearly not booked my shares in my opinion as he made no effort to collect the money before the event started.

Think about it this way. If you guys are going to start taking % reservations as BOOKED action (which you SHOULDN'T) you'll have users asking for %s months in advance, forgetting about it completely, not paying, and then expecting a cut of your profits which is ENTIRELY unfair to the player. The purpose of selling action is to decrease your out of pocket expense for the tournament. If no one ever has to pay till after the event this starts a disaster trend.

If this thread had gone the other way and you had cashed and I had (I wouldn't obviously) come on here and said I deserved 2% of your action or stanskis I would be COMPLETELY out of line and I'm sure people would echo the "no money no action" phrase.