I think you missed me too!

I didnt get a pm either man...haha I railed peter the entire day and saw fitzcat later on at the final table. The whole day was just pure sickness. I really felt that when he doubled with QQ vs williams JJ that he had a really good chance of shipping this thing. AK cant hole up against AT when you need it most what can you do...Either way all i can say is sick tournament, sick finish, sick life.

Okay I can't help myself anymore, the fact that you're withholding 29% of the winnings for taxes is ridiculous. I received PM's from 2 of your other investors so far telling me that they're annoyed with the situation but, to quote one of them, "peter wrote me in his pm that he discussed the tax situation with you and you agreed on his handling regarding the tax situation". Well this is not true at all and you know it. I am very annoyed and do not agree at all with the way you're handling it and for you to tell someone that is just deceitful (assuming you did tell them that). You advertised a package at no markup but are effectively charging about 41% markup. Do you see that it's likely that most of your investors wouldn't have bought the package had they known this?

My choices now are either to illegally launder my share of the winnings that you gave me, or to claim it and effectively be taxed twice on it. I showed you the correct way to transfer the tax liability and you refuse to do it. Many others would tell you that I'm giving you correct advice if you would simply ask, but you refuse to do so.

But seriously though congrats on the score and I sincerely do thank you for prompt payment on the part that you gave me. I just hope you can see that you're putting your investors in a horrible position by handling things this way.

^ yup this.

here is the pm i sent to walkmyline:

"Regarding taxes, I am was under the impression that taxes would not be taken out and that I would report my own taxes. I went through the same thing after cashing in a wsop event, all you need from me is my TIN (tax identification numbers) and a filled out 5754 form and you won't be liable for taxes on my share. It doesn't really make sense to pay taxes twice on it.

Assuming you got a filled out w2g form on your earnings (your taxes aren't taken out yet), it should be fine. For the US citizen backers, you will need to send them 1099-MISC's at year-end. Have each of your backers provide you with a completed Form W-9 so that your accountant can prepare the 1099s.

Anyways, ill take it in cash but id like to settle this tax thing first.

Congrats on the score.

Jason"

I came in 2nd in wsopc earlier this year and had to pay out 40k or so of my winnings. I consulted Russ Fox, a CPA specializing in poker taxes and he worked me through it. No offense to your mother or anything, but i would honestly like a 2nd opinion from Russ or another tax expert.

Completley understand george, and i think ive explained my point of view a ton. No one but me is on record anywhere for winning anything but me. I signed for alot of money and am looking out for myself. I didnt fill out forms to accept the pieces of the buy in, so not sure why that would cange on winnings. I also have a day job, im not a proffesional gambler and she/my mom/accountant, says this is the best way to go. I was under the assumption (ya I know assuming is stupid etc) that this was how it works.Thus not bringing it up in the sale. I spent an hour on the phone while filling out the paperwork with my mom (tax attorney) asking what I should do. They had me signing all sorts of stuff and I called her to make sure. What makes sense for you, isnt always what makes sense or makes me feel comfortable

Anyway it all comes down to what im comfortable with and advised to do. I do agree this all should of been noted in the beggining. And as i said I will be noting it in my other packages before the events start to allow investors to chose if they still want to invest. You gave me links to discussion of it on here. Whats on here isnt script. It comes down to what I feel comfortable with. And wiring the money directly home so I can, send a check to cover tax this week is what makes me feel comfortable knowing the liability is taken care of. I really wish someone told me this in the beggining not now. I would of asked my mom then and told everyone this is what i was comfortable with.

I dont feel at fault, I do though feel naive for not knowing this, and I do feel bad you are mad with me, as we talked about. I am in the end doing what makes me feel comfortable.

I offered to refund half the cost of the investment when you explained to me its almost like a 29% markup. To meet in the middle, to try and show you im sorry I guess in a way. I would extend this offer to anyone, and will note in my other packages what makes me feel comfortable by tommorrow, to all investors a chance to re think there investment

Brilliant way to end a fun run, sigh.

We all generally assumed i guess (this cant be all my fault) as no one even brought this up before and it was never stated (nor did i even think about it) Whatever i suck, but my mom being mad at me for not taking her advice, sits a little higher with me then others being mad at me i guess. I dont like being pressured into what im not familiar with or uncomfortable with though. Not much more i Can say

FWIW Peter, I genuinely do believe that you're trying to do the right thing and aren't intentionally trying to screw us over, but it's just that you are receiving advice from someone who isn't familiar with the backer/backee situation in poker and are trusting their advice over the advice of people who are experienced in this exact situation.

For this to make sense, I would have had to withhold 29% of my share of your buyin when I sent you the money. The fact that I sent you the full share should tell you that you should be sending the full share back in return.

Also regarding this, I hate to be so blunt here, but your mom's advice is forcing me to be double-taxed or to launder the $. There is no way that her advice is even legal, much less correct.

Quaternion Paid online
Pockets89 Paid online
George Paid Cash
noname5620 wire transfer (waiting on details to be pmd)
Klink (cash waiting to meet up??)
Thinky (Pm me your screen name to send)
Ezmogee (waiting to hear back on which way to be paid)

Just so its public knowledge, here is what you pm'ed me about the tax situation.

a couple of things

1. can you clarify as to what forms you signed? If they are W2G forms than I don't see a problem because:

2. There are a specific form that you submit to the IRS about gambling winnings being paid out: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5754.pdf . If you collect tax information from your investors, they are liable for taxes on their share not you. For the record, you are not liable with the IRS for full taxes, and I would be on the official IRS record for taxes. Even in my pm i illustrate that there are multiple ways to deal with this. Can you explain why we can't take this route?

3. What you are doing is effectively asking us to launder money. If you were my employer, what you would be doing is saying "hey i paid taxes on the money im paying you so you don't report anything". Can you clarify why the 30% number (or 29% from george lind) was used? Is this an approximation of a tax bracket or something? What about foreign investors that don't pay taxes on winnings and have a tax treaty with the united states?

4. I think you are a bit confused, you do realize that you don't need to give out your social security number. We just need to give you are SSN or TIN for you to fill out these forms. All we need to do is fill out w-9 forms.

Anyways, if you can't clarify some of this stuff, would it be possible to get your mother to explain it.

Ill schedule a meetup sometime for cash, but id like to get this tax thing straightened out before hand.

And i replied why wasnt this stated in the beggining, why did we not fill out forms when the money was sent to me online. You essentially laundered me money then to play which i have to take from my online poker account to my bank account and claim on my taxes as well. But no one seems to care about that either, or what makes me feel comfortable. Anyway, this is obv a mess cause ive never done this before. You guys should of mentioned this in the beggining, i see it as, I sign, i pay. Your recieving taxed cash, or online money. That I paid tax on. You all get cash or online money back which was never tracked in the first place when it was sent to me to cash out and take the tax liability for. I will ask around and talk to my mom in person when I get home. Is all I can say for now. But doing what is comfortable for me is best and not getting pressured by people because is better for them, is not really how I should ever base a decision.

Anyway, great sour ending to a fun run.

Klink in meantime would you like cash before i take my flight, I can meet in lobby. As george knows I like things paid prompt. And i still offer the half refund on investment cost to show my apologize for all this crap

I mean you (OP) don't have any experience with this stuff (using your mom as your accountant lol) and are dealing with a whole bunch of people who do it all the time and have advised you how it should be handled/how any competent accountant who is knowledgeable about gambling would advise you to handle it, "meeting in the middle" is still a 15% scam imo.

I completely understand that you don't want to be pressured into a situation you are not familiar with, but don't offer people half of the 29% they deserve back, tell them you need to meet with an accountant and will do this in the next five days before getting professional advice. Congrats on the nice score, use the money to hire a good accountant, sorry but your mom is either misinformed about the situation or plain wrong.

This is completely wrong as well.

Seriously all this talk of bringing your mom into the thread and needing to meet her for advice is silly, go hire a competent gambling-oriented accountant.

FWIW, Peter I understand your concern. I've recently returned from vegas and played the first group of tourneys in my package. I had as small cash and was concerned about having to pay the whole tax bill. After sending out some PMs, etc and doing some research, I feel more comfortable (albeit not completely comfortable) with the process of filling out the forms that klink mentioned. I wanted to get this addressed before I ship something big during my next trip. I stumbled across a CPA that works with poker players that may be of use to you. I'm meeting with her next week.

http://www.pokerdeductions.com/

BTW, Congrats on the score!! Hopefully, I'll be the next Gilmore at a WSOP Final Table.

wait I dont understand why would we have to claim twice?

walkmyline have yo usent the funds to me by now? its birgit70 either on stars or ftp

Birgit70 I just sent on FTP
sorry I missed you on the list

Mother does it for a living btw, not just random, shes worked in a law office her whole life with a cpa

We don't have to claim it twice, but it's effectively already taxed by Peter when we receive the $ (since he's withholding 29%). But we also have to report it to the irs because it's income, and we have no way of proving that it was already taxed b/c Peter refuses to give out the proper forms.

Otherwise I have 86k that I have no way of explaining where it came from, or that it was taxed already, so I'll have to pay taxes on it again.

Peter,

I'll be in Vegas starting the 15th. Let's meet up for cash there at some point.

In the meantime, I'll just wait to see how this plays out. I guess it's a bit annoying, but I'm hopeful we can resolve it in a way that works for everyone.

Even more annoying is that this has to ruin what must've been the most exciting experience of your life. Try not to let it. But do consider taking the advice of people who engage in millions of dollars of gambling related transactions annually. I'm not that bigtime, but they are all above the level, and pay their taxes. Given the virtual paper trail here, no IRS agent could ever suspect that you're trying to evade the taxes on the win

Congrats again, and I look forward to meeting you when I make it to Vegas.

Ezra

I realize that but from her advice it's clear she is not well-informed on gambling tax law and I would see it as a conflict of interest if I were an investor for you to be using your mom to resolve a dispute. You made a big score which is great, now be responsible and get an accountant. Russ Fox is certainly the most widely publicized on these boards and he definitely approaches things from a (good) conservative angle.

I believe the woman from the PD website does a few high profile players' taxes (won't mention names just in case they want that private) but I don't know too much about her.

ok first of all i want to thank you for the really fast payout which doesn't happen all the time around here.

And to adress the tax situation, i am from Germany and we don't have to pay taxes at all on gambling winnings if it is not our regular income. So it would be great if you could solve the situation by hiring an accounting who knows how to handle such a situation and i think we all would be more than willing to pay our share of his costs the get paid most of the 30% you witheld from the winnings.

Not sure what else to say guys, I told you I would ask a few people and speak to her again in person. As for now this makes me feel comfortable. End of story. Im not going to be pressured by people I do not know into something im not comfortable with. This was not stated in the beggining i guess is the major confusion, wasnt mentioned or asked about by anyone. I figured this was how it worked. Ive taken pieces of people/swaps in the past and never filled out forms on win, just took the piece i won from them. Anyway, this should of been stated i guess in the write up that im taking care of tax liability. And I will now post it in my other packages to make sure people know this before hand this time so no confusion giving them the chance to keep or get refunded there piece

Sigh, other then having rio food poisining and now all this crap, it was def the funnest coolest thing that has ever happend to me.

Just wish I could of gone even farther. I dont engage in millions that the point and dont want to be associated with people that do "on paper", I work a regular job as well, im not proffesional gambler in regards to taxes. This is so much more comfortable for me and keeps me under the radar with the irs. The casino is sending forms to the irs, I wired the tax amount (appx to my mom and mine account) so that it can be paid NOW, so i dont have to worry about it. As george can attest i like things paid etc right then and there, paying him minutes after the win, just to get it over with.

This all should of been brought up or asked about by someone with more of a clue then me. I gotta catch a flight in a bit though.