I also think it's closer to 25 than most think. What if galen told vivek he was sold out and vivek offered to pay higher markup to get 5% so galen took it off the last share? Not saying it happened but when action is "booked" that should be the end of it so that things like that can't happen. Like TT said, if crisp posts that he's changing from 25% to 20% 5 minutes before the tournament starts, wouldn't you be mad that you are now on the hook for an extra 5% that you didn't want? Imagine if it was something more drastic like he changed it from 25% to 5%? Just because he publicly posts it for everyone to see before the tournament starts, that doesn't make it acceptable.

I was on the fence after the OP but his attitude since then makes me scratch my head. He is the one who behaved questionably here. It's criminal to compare galen to tmay but I am surprised how he's handling it. This isn't directed solely at galen (or this thread in general) but I can't believe the entitlement people feel when selling action to poker tournaments. MTT stars remind me of diva NFL WRs. Major buyers in the marketplace should get the benefit of the doubt before even the most credible sellers. Much like the whales at a casino, don't piss me them off. Fwiw I sell more action than I buy.

you (galen) handled this equity sale horribly. you had your desired amt of action sold (~65%), which was all sold to reputable people, and then on the morning of the tournament, you decide to unbook someones action that they have already bought (and you confirmed as booked) so that you can sell a friend 5%? and then make no direct mention to that person?

i am not saying you owe crisp 30k, but if you offered me a 250$ equity freeroll in a heads up mtt, id feel insulted.

case in point

I think Galen's intention is relevant in this situation, and as such I think he owes 20%. If Galen busted before the money he definitely would have asked for 20% and not 25%. He made it clear that the action was changing based on the rules he posted within his thread, and is clearly honest as far as his intention to pay what he owes.

While I do think he owes ICM an apology, possibly some sort of good faith freeroll, and has learned that he should be more communicative when changing action...I think 20% is the correct thing to pay.

Hope this works out smoothly, anyone comparing this to the Tmay fiasco is insane, as Galen communicated in a public forum his intentions from the get go.

1. I reserve the right to buy back the latter parts of this package at a later date if I bink something or just feel like gamboling. I want to state this up front and be clear about it. Also, i will obviously post anything like this WELL BEFORE the actual mtts start, so there won't be any confusion.

If u dont like this, dont buy action from galen. CLEAR 20% They should be happy they got to buy any. Stop selling action, your the best.

He posted that in another thread, it's not relevant here.

Confirmed booked is exactly that. Booked. No? Untill confirmed unbooked or changed by both parties. No where was crisp aware that his booked % could change. TTs example seems spot on.

Galen pms crisp and ask if he wants a piece. Crisp says ya booked ill take 25% galen says ok booked. Crisp then opens a thread 1 hour before tourney saying he does not want the 25% of galens tourney. Galen never sees the thread and plays. Galen bricks and comes to crisp looking for the 25%. Crisp says sorry dude i unbooked publicly. I dont owe you the money. What????? This is ok?

Standards have to be same for both sides. No? Booking via pm is essentially texting Someone to book. Nothing to do with a thread or marketplace. Completley seperate from anything you have stated in past threads (changing % etc)

You are clearly a fanboy so I'm wasting my breath here but do you really think the bolded helps your case? lol WELL BEFORE = 1 hour now. Not to mention this post was in a completely different thread.

I think this is a valid argument but I think Galen explicitly stating in his selling thread that he can change the action is significant enough warning to any prospective buyer. Some people do not put these disclaimers in their threads, as such they should be held entirely accountable for both action via PM and action in the thread itself.

My question is do the reputations and intentions of the parties concerned matter? If we are saying that this issue should be resolved in the most accurate way to set proper precedent perhaps Galen should be held accountable for his lack of direct communication to ICM and pay 25%. However, if the reputations of buyers and sellers have any significant weight in the marketplace it seems that Galen should only owe 20% as his intentions were explicitly stated in a public thread.

There was no selling thread. This whole booked action was done via pm. The thread were he stated he could change percents was months ago for totally diff event and action. Unless im missing something

You are correct, there is not a structured selling thread as Galen has previously posted. So because he didn't explicitly write out a selling thread do the rules of his usual selling threads not apply? Like I said previously I think as a matter of precedent to prevent further mixups among less well trusted persons Galen would owe 25%. However, in this particular situation I think it should be 20%.

I'm all for the letter of the law, but sometimes the intentions of both parties must be relevant in dictating the outcome here, and it seems as though the intention of the selling party was to only sell 20% to ICM.

I think people are expecting a response from me/us,
apologies for the delay,very busy atm,will post our thoughts later for sure.

20% not at all close


you shouldnt have unbooked in the first place/should have made sure you contacted them directly about it though

This is where the problem comes in...you just assume you can unilaterally reduce crisp's share without even talking to him as long as you post in the market place....that's quite an assumption to make when you're dealing with 100's of thousands of dollars potentially on the line - and you guys booked over pm without a thread even existing. If that was your assumption then booking 25% via pm without mentioning anything about reducing shares was definitely a mistake on your part. Crisp has no obligation to think that he needs to scan the market place in order to figure out whether his booked shares via pm have been reduced prior to a tourney beginning.

Madrid high roller overselling yourself -
Galen, I asked you explicity if you would be selling action outside of the thread for your remo/madrid package and you directly said "no, and if I do, anything sold will be posted in this thread prior to the event" .....well what ended up happening? You posted the day before madrid 25k saying you probably wouldn't be able to play unless you sold a bunch more....and then the next update is your write up of how day 1 went building your stack from 50k to 135k. Not a big deal, although an update that you were going to play the event after you indicated that it was unlikely would have been nice....untill fast forward to when you tell us after the package/tourney is completed that you sold 85% of yourself only leaving 15% of your action. Leaving yourself 15% vs at least 21% you were supposed to have is a substantial difference, and in my mind probably factored in to your play. Could it have been an innocent mistake like you said? Yes, probably. Could it have happened if you posted any side action sold in the thread....as you had said you would when asked directly? No. With only 15% of your own action the pay jumps meant even less which probably contributed to you playing a massive pot 7 handed with Benny with 4 short stacks hanging around. There was a reason I asked you explicityly if you would sell action outside of the thread....you just ignored that, oversold yourself, and then made it like "no big deal ldo going to pay everyone out it was my mistake". Are we supposed to be thankful that you are going to pay us out or something? You make no mention to the fact that you sold yourself outside of the thread - which you said you wouldn't do - and as a result oversold yourself only leaving 15% equity. I think you need to start taking this stuff much more seriously considering the money involved. Considering how detailed I was in questioning you about selling action on the side without posting, your disregard is pretty insulting and I think I lost out big time by you only having 15% of yourself, mistake or not doesn't really matter. Your assumption is that its no big deal - and as in this case, I think your assumption is pretty ridiculous.

I bring up madrid because it seems like you don't quite have things together enough to be doing so much business in the hours leading up to tourneys starting. When there is so much money on the line, the simple excuse "oops sorry I oversold myself" doesn't cut it - especially when it only leaves you with 15% and we're talking about one of the most expensive tourneys of the year.....just like your excuse "oops sorry I just assumed when we said booked over pm, that you knew I could unilaterally reduce your share without getting in touch as long as I posted in the marketplace prior to the event" doesn't cut it either.

I'd also like to point out that its been almost 2 weeks since madrid ended and you have just assumed that we have no problem waiting for our money while you fly around the world playing more tourneys....why would you think that you can just wait weeks before paying out? Your assumption that we don't need our money when you are supposed to get it to us is pretty off base - especially combined with the fact that you oversold yourself in a $35K US dollar tourney, when you were explicity asked if all action sold would be noted in the thead many weeks prior to the event. Did you ever think that for some of us, buying almost 2% of someone in such a large tourney was a substantial investment and that every detail was an important factor in purchasing your action?

You assume that selling yourself outside of the madrid thread is no big deal, even though you said you wouldn't and as a result oversold yourself only leaving 15% equity.

You assume that I don't mind waiting weeks to get paid out which was never mentioned when action was booked.

You assume you can unilaterally reduce crisp's shares that were booked over pm with no existing thread... without ever getting in touch with him.

Do you see a trend developing here? Get it together. Assumptions do not belong in transactions of this magnitude. Please start the process of paying out for madrid, I didn't realize I would have to wait weeks upon weeks after the tourney completed to get my money. The least you could have done is offered to roll over our shares into the bellgio 25k if you were going to foce us to wait weeks to get paid out which was in no way mentioned in the original deal. For you to just say to us...."oh I'm busy I'll pay you out in a couple of weeks" is total BS and I don't know why you would assume everyone has to be cool with waiting for your schedule to open up to get paid.

This is absolutely the key here. As unfortunate and non-ideally as this was handled by OP, there's no way it can/should be 20% if he does not cash and 25% if he does. It just can't be both ways.
This is a great point, TT, and why these sales should be handled with more care. However, I'm not sure how much it applies to this specific case though because OP said he had not physically received any of the money for the share, thus, it was more a case of him changing a "reserve".
Although it could have been much worse (if he didn't post the confirmation %'s before the tournament for example) a lot of the issue here does lie directly from the fact that this was hurried and not handled as well as it could have been.

Again, though, this does not change the point of the first posters quote above that it would have been 20% if he lost. If it can be proven that it would have been 25% if he did not cash (maybe a previous example?) then I'd see an argument but it can't be both ways (25% if he cashes 20% if he doesn't).

agreed and agreed with todd, can't believe you just unilaterally changed his share right before the tournament started. also, I think some people don't realize that you only reserved the right to do that in the madrid thread, not in reference to this 25k, right? I don't think it's implied that you have the right to do that.

crisp tries to pay Galen 25%, Galen says no, I only booked you for 20% and shows him the thread. crisp is probably a little confused, maybe says PM me next time and Galen says ok, and obviously would not accept the extra 5% since he had only been intending to pay crisp 20% of his net cash. Crisp would be silly to try and force Galen to take the extra 5% since it's clear Galen would've only paid him 20% of his cash. Otherwise crisp would be getting freerolled

exactly, greg. this thread needs to decide if a seller can change a % sold to an investor in favor of another investor. i think if the consensus is that you can, it opens up lots of ways for people to angle.
the marketplace needs rules, and it seems that before recently, confirming booked, especially through a pm, meant the action was booked. while galen didnt mean any harm and isnt going to angle or rip anyone off, he should honor the booked action.

Doesnt matter what crisp "would" of paid if he didnt cash. What matters is what crisp was "expecting" to pay. Expecting booked. If crisp meets up with galen never having seen the thread and has 25% in his pocket to pay galen with. He was expecting to pay 25%. If galen at that point said nah man u only owe me 20% he may of still given 25% because he stick to his word. And never saw the thread. What he was "expecting" to pay, planning to pay and was sweating is what matters in this scenario.

Apparently no one would expect crisp to pay 25% for the piece he wanted ad boooked. Apparently he should just pay whatever piece galen felt he should have. But mentally be expexting to pay 25% and sweating 25% and booking 25% doesnt matter. Cause galen would of only charged him 20%?????

Everyone will have own opinions. As i said earlier you guys have a profitable relationship and are grown adults. Who cares what everyone says on here. What matters is both you guya being happy with outcome. Go get a beer in vegas and figure it out. No one was being malicious obviously. Mixups happen, human error happens

+1

The best part of this thread is Galen selling to the 10k plh at 1.25 imo

OK, I rarely post, but I think this is a good opportunity to use this situation to develop more rights for buyers.

The deal is this: Galen only owes Crisp 20%, imo. HOWEVER, that's a function of the way this forum works and is majorly problematic. As it stands, sellers (the player) have a disproportionate amount of power. Players routinely change schedules, percentages, even cancel packages last minute with little or no warning. It has been tacitly endorsed by the buyers and is accepted as commonplace.

Because of this power misalignment, Galen (rightly, unfortunately) understood that he could revise Crisp's percentage without any real communication. But it shouldn't be this way.

I cannot tell you how many e-mails I've gotten from players this summer after confirming terms and schedules, that they were canceling their deal with me to sell to another buyer at higher MU. Or that because they saw players they considered inferior selling at a higher MU, they were revising the contracted MU. This type of behavior is really problematic.

It's not a judgment on Galen. He acted the way many other players/sellers in this forum act, so I can't blame him. But it's not fair to the buyers and needs to be amended moving forward.

Ezra

I agree with most of that ezmogee....except for the fact that his transaction was handled solely through pms...and actually had nothing to do with the marketplace - that definitely changes things. I'm not sure what is right here, but its not a clear 20% as many are making it out to be imo. Galen unfortunately (but not rightly) assumed he had unilateral ability to cancel action booked via pm, without ever notifying the other party directly. In no way do I think "rightly" is a good way to describe how Galen assumed he had unilateral ability to change terms.

this X 1000

and i cant believe more people dont have the same opinion.

Imagine if the situation was reversed and crisp decided to reduce from 25 to 20 or even less at the last minute? How would you feel then if you busted and he wasn't going to pay you what you thought he owed you Galen? Surely if you can unilaterally reduce his share he can do the same? Or does the word booked mean different things for sellers and buyers?

What would the reaction in the thread be? Lining up the mob to lynch crisp?