How is it similar to the tmay situation? Tmay never came online and cleared things up before he played, and everybody reamed him for it.

I came online, very clearly, explicitly spelled out what shares everyone had, then played. Icfund offered to buy up to 25%, and I said I'd take the 25%, then within an hour said that I was only taking 20%, and I did made it public so that there wouldn't be any confusion and so that nobody could get angleshot or anything.

It's not like I'm asking you to take my word that I would have only asked for 20%, I freaking explicitly posted in a public forum what %s I had allocated. It's right there for everyone to see, including ICfund, the team of people who read every marketplace post within 5 minutes.

Huh?? You didn't even tell him. Did he even find out what percentage he had until after the tourney? Pretty obvious you were neither clear nor explicit.

Edit- want to add that I don't think this is exactly the same as tmay obviously. But there are similarities. I think your intention was there. But you did a poor job informing your investor(s) of the situation. Whether you expect that they read every forum every minute of everyday, that's not the way to contact someone to discuss personal business

Were you afraid sergey would not approve the change to 20% from 25% if you found him via pm to confirm before the event? Just trying to figure why you wouldnt find him to confirm this change via pm (same way you booked it) and decided to post it in thread instead

pm booking is essentially you texting him to book a piece. no thread set guidelines (i.e i can change ur piece) etc

Walkmyline kinda said it but here's the real problem:

You can't ask the marketplace what's right. You didn't set the stake up here. You're asking people for advice who all abide by certain rules and I don't think these rules apply. You set this up by PM which is essentially live. What rules apply? I don't know. That's why we have the marketplace.

I think by asking for advice here you are asking a very biased community who are giving an opinion influenced by the rules that they operate by. Granted there aren't many options for asking for advice and this is your best public venue. Try a different audience. What would Doyle say?

I posted his percentage in a public forum for everyone to see, so if I tried to argue that it was anything other than 20% at any point I would've been ridiculed.

I have no idea when he saw the thread. Crisp made posts in the marketplace within 2 minutes of when I made that post, and continued to make posts in the marketplace over the next several hours of that day, and the next sevearl days, not to mention all of the other people that work for ICfund and read every thread within minutes.

I agree that it was unprofessional of me not to PM him and inform him, and it sucks for him to find out that he only had 20% after the tournament rather than before the tournament started like I intended, but just the same as if I didn't cash at all, I don't think that the exact date he finds out that his share has changed is relevant at all.


Why would I be afraid to PM him? I probably should have, but I just didn't feel like it was necessary since I wanted to start playing asap. I had just arranged the action an hour before, and the tournament didn't start yet, so I didn't feel like reducing his share from 25% to 20% would be such a big deal. I obviously felt like I was within my rights to do what I felt was best and then posted it to make sure everything was clear.

Wait, from the sound of the OP you booked 25% with Crisp the day before the tournament and said if Vivek had service the day of the tournament crisp would have 0%...why wouldn't you tell him in the first PM Vivek had first dibs?

Obv no one thinks you were angling or anything you're a super standup guy but you made some errors here in your PMs and posts. Obviously it would've been nice for crisp if you busted to find out he owed you less, but investors ROI comes from FTs and youve been on a sick heater and he obviously thinks his investment is profitable and wants as much of you as he can...personally I'd be thrilled to owe less % when my horses bust and have more when they bink obv but a buyer picks what he wants and crisp wanted 25%

No experience with this I'd get arbitration with an agreed upon MP panel

Day OF the tournament, not day before, that was a typo on my part. This all happened within the span of an hour and a half before I started playing.

Sorry I didn't write a 10 page essay to Crisp on my cell phone minutes before the tournament started detailing every possible scenario and outcome, I just was juggling a lot of different investors and figured that whatever I posted publicly before I started playing would be the clearest way of dealing with it and everybody would be cool with that.

Oh well. hope you guys work it out. No need ruining what is a profitable relationship you guys have over something like this. Nothing malicous done by either side, just a misscomunication, happens. Get a beer, figure it out in vegas. everyone on here is going to see it with there own opinion. what matters is both you guys being comfortable with the outcome

I think I really take issue with you being so presumptuous with how "obvious" this is and you continually claiming that you've been clear and explicit.

These were the posts you're referring to. They were posted just over an hour apart in a dedicated confirmation thread, not additional posts within a thread where action was purchased. Forgetting the fact that we don't even know if crisp would ever even see this thread, I still think it's a pretty ambiguous post. It's nothing close to clear or explicit imo. I remember reading the 2nd post when it was posted and thinking wtf does that mean. And english is my first language!

I'm new here obviously. Found this interesting. I get staked for pool tourney's and cash games all the time and I think you have to split the difference with him. 22.5% is the only way to go as i see it.

Ahh, ok. That makes more sense.

Clearly you were scrambling to get action sold last min...just a really unfortunate situation, obviously you'll learn from this in the future. Clearly you were in a rough spot with vivek who wanted action but you couldn't reach him and were trying to get action sold last min totally understandable. Your PM to crisp shouldve been like booked pending x, x being whatever you decide it is. Whether or not he gave you cash is irrelevant also IMO....you know he's good for it and said booked/are honoring his 20%. It's really helpful to have a good business relationship like that & be able to snap sell big chunks day of tournies etc....gl resolving this

fwiw....it was very smart the way you posted a confirmation thread etc given how al your action selling went down. that was very responsible and something other people could mimic, however, the way you handled the pms and booking the action could've been better.

Can you please stop saying this? He didn't offer to buy up to 25%. He offered to buy precisely 25%, and you booked that action.

Count me as "on the fence."

Anyway, I count 8 people 100% on my side, 2 people on ICFund's side and 4 or 5 people in the middle.

I can see that I made an error, but when the options are 20% or 25% I cannot possibly conceive of anything other than "20% but you should have pmd him" being the answer, seeing as it being 25% means that I would've been correct to ask for 25% even after I explicitly posted 20%, and that just seems bananas. He offered to buy up to 25% and I accepted 25%, then moved that down to 20%. If I pay him anything other than 20% I feel like I'm exposing myself to a massive angleshoot, whether intentional or not, since anything above that he's essentially freerolling because it never would've gotten brought up if I didn't cash.


Anyway, crisp offered to buy my WSOP 10k PLH at 1.2, and so to just close this and move on I'll offer to sell him that event at no markup (I was planning on selling 20-25%, but I will sell him up to 30% if he wants), or a 1% freeroll in the 25k HU.

Strictly from reading the OP and not any replies, I agree with this statement towards the bottom of the OP.
Respectfully, it would have been ideal if you could have sent him a PM letting him know so there was less chance at hard feelings, but that also may have something to do with the result. I don't know either of you and am guessing this would be a non issue if you don't cash.

This is somewhat unfortunate and hopefully in the future you can avoid last minute BAP's where there's not enough time to spend on them as you would normally have, so issues like this will be easier to avoid.

Don't really think offering him 2k equity or whatever when he's expecting 30k is much of a compromise. Think of it from the other side. You made a deal with him outside of 2p2. You booked 25%. He doesn't contact you but posts on a forum an hour after this PM exchange that he's changed his mind and he has that money committed to someone else and only wants 5% now. He hopes you see it. You bust first hand and he claims to only owe you 5%......

600 in equity vs 30k isn't much of a compromise.. and I'm one of those that thinks it should be 20% with a compromise. 8-10k in future equity seems fair

I am new here and have only staked a couple of people locally but I am a lawyer and thus I cannot control myself.
I would say that unless the listed disclaimer is known to the staker (by virtue of previous stakings) or that the agreements are all handled in the Marketplace that you would owe him 25 percent if it had been paid previous to the sale. I believe you said when you sold the 5% you had not received any money from your backer and were scrambling. IF he had wired you the funds it is doubtful you'd have been scrambling. As this was not a done deal, I would pay over the 20 percent and make it clear to all of your backers that you will decide if you maybe returning their funds and not selling as much as you are originally seeking.
As some folks here make their money backing other folks. Your decision to act in the last minute could cause a real bankroll turn for your backer. IF he has only X amount to back with and he invests it all with you and you return all or some of it and he could not back another runner, that could cause a serious financial stop for the backer. If I were backing, I would demand some return on my money even if you don't use it as it is a loss of investment opportunity.
Like I said what do I know, I am just a fish, but that is my 2 cents..

Except I don't owe him 30k in equity.

I owe him an apology for publicly posting my shares for the world to see, but neglecting to also PM him in case he missed the post. And for that, I'm offering a pretty reasonable deal which 2 people have already AIM'd me to tell me I am an idiot for offering.

add one to the fence.

I'm guessing those people weren't major buyers in the Live MP. I don't think a democratic vote should be the only consideration here, since sellers will obviously far outnumber the buyers.

once you said..

..it was booked imo.

i think you did the right thing by posting itt what you believed the share %s to be, but there needs to be a standard that once you say booked, it means booked, unless agreed upon by both parties.

Had Galen not cashed, would anyone really expect crisp to pay him for 25% ?

What would've ICfund had said if he pm'd him, "hey i'm going to sell off 5% to my friend who I initially planned on selling the whole piece too but couldn't get a hold of him." I doubt anything would've been said but ok cool gl. Therefore his shares are worth 20%. Obviously trust is a big issue and if you did business before I think this would've been a very reasonable outcome and as good business practice offering a small freeroll in the wsop is just a good gesture.

No, but that's not really the point ... Galen pretty clearly made a mistake in this instance, while Crisp did not.

Marketplace confirmation threads are supposed to exist to confirm what two parties have already agreed to, not for the seller to change the terms of the agreement unilaterally after having already booked action.

Your attitude about how right you are is really off-putting. Try and see the other perspective. Did you ever consider that Crisp didn't look at your confirmation thread because he figured he knew what it was going to say? That he had 25% as you had booked via pm?