Hypothetical... - Page 6 - Selling Shares - Live -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

I was simply objecting to the term 'liability' that was used and it is my belief that legally speaking and if these transactions were to go to court, the seller would owe us the action or our money back (and not when its unfrozen).

That said, the gamblers code and common sense will prevail here and what is going to happen is probably the 'right' thing - which is that any money we sent that is currently frozen we wont get back until its unfrozen and we wont get the action we booked unless we re-ship some other way.

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04-17-2011 , 10:07 PM

#127

lilman2636

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Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,531

It's out of both investors and sellers hands, and imo hopefully the sites realease the funds to the players prior to the wsop and action can continue, however i wouldnt hold my breathe for now. If the money is stuck the money is stuck period, the seller was selling action in order to help fund the run, now that run is cut short or cut out completly therefore the horse is off the hook untill funds are unfroze and rec.

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04-17-2011 , 10:11 PM

#128

Pghfan987

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HC82

I know, and I was inquiring into your legal education because I wanted to know if you were just guessing. I find it incredibly unlikely that a court would ever rule in favor of a buyer in this instance. But legal terms like "liability," "risk of loss," and "usage of trade" are not easily applied to the online poker context. This isn't a black and white issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HC82

That said, the gamblers code and common sense will prevail here and what is going to happen is probably the 'right' thing - which is that any money we sent that is currently frozen we wont get back until its unfrozen and we wont get the action we booked unless we re-ship some other way.

I completely agree with this. We should do what we know is right instead of worrying about what the Department of Justice thinks.

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04-17-2011 , 10:13 PM

#129

Pghfan987

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I am asking this in a new post because it is a different issue: this is a question for those who believe the seller is on the hook. If I move to Costa Rica and my funds become unfrozen, and a buyer lives in the US and can't receive the transfers, is it the buyer's responsibility to move to another country in order to receive the online transfer back?

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04-17-2011 , 10:23 PM

#130

bigtex21

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pghfan987

You could just send it thru the mail, paypal or other methods.

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04-17-2011 , 10:26 PM

#131

Pghfan987

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I agree, that would be what is fair. We don't expect buyers to take extraordinary measures to leave the country in order to retrieve the funds. Nor should we expect sellers to dip into their personal savings to reimburse the buyer before the funds are unfrozen. As soon as the funds become available, they will be returned to their rightful owner.

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04-17-2011 , 10:36 PM

#132

bigtex21

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Pghfan987

I'm of the old school where a gamblers word is his bond and once he says a bet is booked it is booked no if's ands or buts. If your employer direct deposits your paycheck and then your bank closes it doors would you expect your employer to give you another check. I guarantee they would say we already paid you if it was taken out of their account.

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04-17-2011 , 10:42 PM

#133

Pghfan987

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

Right, the money stays with the bank and the employee would have to take it up with them. How the hell does this analogy help your side?

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04-17-2011 , 10:44 PM

#134

DoGGz

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Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 17,315

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

I'm of the old school where a gamblers word is his bond and once he says a bet is booked it is booked no if's ands or buts.

How is the player going to buy into the tournament without the money?

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04-17-2011 , 11:09 PM

#135

bigtex21

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Quote:

Originally Posted by big tex 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pghfan987

Right, the money stays with the bank and the employee would have to take it up with them. How the hell does this analogy help your side?

The investors did what they were supposed to do they sent the money. And what if the investor is from another country his funds were taken from a good account still usable yet the seller is saying tough I'm not honoring your deposit. The sellers problem is with Stars or Tilt since they chose to use them as their banker.

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04-17-2011 , 11:13 PM

#136

bigtex21

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DoGGz

How is the player going to buy into the tournament without the money?

Most players that I know sell to decrease their variance the same as swapping percentages with another player not because they don't have the money.

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04-17-2011 , 11:31 PM

#137

DoGGz

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

Most players that I know sell to decrease their variance the same as swapping percentages with another player not because they don't have the money.

I know many many players who have large WSOP packages who did not have that money sitting in their bank account. How would 'old school' gamblers settle these issues.

I am interested because I want to make it right.

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04-17-2011 , 11:47 PM

#138

bigtex21

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DoGGz

Not everything is done right but some are saying they are playing anyway but your shares are canceled and I feel this is totally wrong. I'm still waiting for Dutch Boyd to make things right from when he shut Pokerspot down and promised to pay everyone back. But using a poker site for a bank does not seem very smart to me but I went thru losing money on Pokerspot and since then I have not trusted leaving money on poker sites nor have I played on them much. You get burned once you tend to be wary.

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04-17-2011 , 11:53 PM

#139

lukebro22

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 731

old schoold gamblers would use cash in hand for any transaction like this... there would never be any risk of seizure from the doj. Not really comparable imo.

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04-17-2011 , 11:59 PM

#140

lilman2636

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Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,531

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

U must not play much online poker obv, and you shouldnt state ur case in this thread sir no offense but leave this to the online guys and not the results oriented live players thanks

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04-18-2011 , 12:02 AM

#141

gostatego

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bigtex you seem to be very opinionated about things you arent qualified to speak about. you are comparing the old days of poker before the internet existed to today. they are not the same.

Last edited by gostatego; 04-18-2011 at 12:04 AM. Reason: how can you compare dutch boyds poker site to this situation

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04-18-2011 , 12:08 AM

#142

bigtex21

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lilman 2636

U must not play much online poker obv, and you shouldnt state Ur case in this thread sir no offense but leave this to the online guys and not the results oriented live players thanks

No I pretty much quit playing online after Pokerspot shut down and kept everyone's money. But I will lose a small amount deposited on Stars. And I will play in wsop main event only since selling 50% of my action to Jackofspeed and mbaall and if my bank should fail (basically the same as on-line funds being cut off), I get robbed on the way to buy-in or anything I will still play and they will get their share since they paid me it wouldn't be their fault that my bank shut down or I got robbed and if I get ill or die my wife knows of the "contract" and they would still get their money.

Last edited by bigtex21; 04-18-2011 at 12:33 AM.

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04-18-2011 , 12:16 AM

#143

braudablowup

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,839

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

But I will lose a couple of hundred on Stars.

you real?

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04-18-2011 , 12:17 AM

#144

M1NDGAM3S

centurion

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 148

Quote:

Originally Posted by braudablowup

you real?

couple hundo balls

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04-18-2011 , 12:35 AM

#145

bigtex21

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Quote:

Originally Posted by braudablowup

you real?

After losing about $3,000 when Dutch Boyd shut Pokerspot down you don't trust on-line poker sites.

Quote

04-18-2011 , 12:43 AM

#146

lukebro22

adept

Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 731

I heard dutch say something on the quadjacks stream that you might find a bit tilting bigtex.... actually everyone should find it tilting.

He said that part of him hopes that funds get seized and never returned so some of the weight from the pokerspot scanal might be lifted off his shoulders.

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04-18-2011 , 12:43 AM

#147

lilman2636

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Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,531

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

After losing about $3,000 when Dutch Boyd shut Pokerspot down you don't trust on-line poker sites.

Again live players makin results oriented decisions, good luck in the Main event but please ur opinion was heard but def no online player will agree with u at all, as u can see we never agree with each other the live tables lol gl

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04-18-2011 , 12:56 AM

#148

bigtex21

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lukebro22

Everytime I see him I ask for my money and he ignores me and walks away. By the way just saw Chris Ferguson on TMZ and he wasn't wearing FullTilt's logo for the first time in years.

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04-18-2011 , 12:57 AM

#149

braudablowup

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,839

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

After losing about $3,000 when Dutch Boyd shut Pokerspot down you don't trust on-line poker sites.

3,000 is such air to what some of us are worrying about right now. Im not sure who you are but your points don't seem to valid to online poker and how the "online" marketplace works

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04-18-2011 , 01:12 AM

#150

hoodskier

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Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 5,149

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

Most players that I know sell to decrease their variance the same as swapping percentages with another player not because they don't have the money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

After losing about $3,000 when Dutch Boyd shut Pokerspot down you don't trust on-line poker sites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtex21

Everytime I see him I ask for my money and he ignores me and walks away. By the way just saw Chris Ferguson on TMZ and he wasn't wearing FullTilt's logo for the first time in years.

bigtex21 ladies and gentlemen. One of the biggest ****ing idiots we've ever seen in the staking forum and that says A LOT.

edit: obv Dutch is a scumbag but you sir are still a moron.

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