glad you cleared your side up.


as far as the "he is busy playing the event", i just dont buy it. he came in here and spent 10 minutes spewing that awful post. if he came in and said "hey guys, sorry for the confusion. i am unsure of what to do about this, but would appreciate it if we could deal with this after the tournament" I still dont think thats right, but it would have at least not had this thread going in the direction it is.


i know you are just trying to "protect" tmay here and try and make him play his best becuase you have a large piece of him, but yeah...

He wont read it, he is already playing

I write it because threads like this tend to go crazy, and don't give the chance to someone to reverse after something been said. I know Tim, spoke with him, and he didn't made an impression of someone who can threat problem like this in this way.
All this aggressive approach only make things more complicated here — I want peaceful solutions of this situations, because stuff like this will happen, and I very likely to be part of it at some point.
I don't think it is a good idea to push as people push here in this situation, thats all.

Max, I like you and all, but you really should stop posting in this thread.

Defending that ridiculous post by Tmay because he's in the middle of the tournament is a joke. And to say "nobody can react in a proper way to a thing like this" is just an insult to any person with class and morals.

He didn't have to solve the situation right then and there, but showing respect was a must, and at least a recognition of negligence on his part. Instead, Tmay played the victim, and went as far as to say he was "sneak attacked".

It's shocking to me that you think his post was reasonable.

While we're at it, you continue to say that you are sure that Tmay will go about this the right way. Why are you sure of this? All we can go on is what he's said, and it looks like he made himself mightly clear in that post.

I don't think this post was normal. I think it was awful.

But I don't think this post should be considered as Tim's reaction to this situation, because he made it in the middle of big tournament obviously without thinking deep about it.

So let's wait for his reaction to this in normal, calm circumstances, and then make judgments.

do you think the action was booked max?


and before you say "i would never be in this situation, so i dont know" thats not the question. i know i wouldnt be caught up in either side of this as i am super paranoid about booking action from either side.

I don't have an opinion on it at this moment. It looks like it is, but the post with the cancelation in the start of day 2 and the fact that Tim never wrote "booked" about any of them privately or publicly and never made a list of the investors or something like this, makes it complicated.
If I would the arbitrator here I would ask the sides what they think for first, then listen and read the arguments, then speak with them separately, then speak with both of them together, then think about it for a day or two, then I would had an opinion. Now I don't.

It is absolutely normal in my opinion to take situation like this to an arbitrator. It is completely unacceptable to say "I don't give a **** about what you talking about here, I won't pay anything".

I think the best solution was to pay out the equity of his stack at the end of day 1.

Obviously, the time for doing that is long since passed.

+1 for sure

He's HU right now...

OT

ah man this situation is messy...

reserve 10% plz sent

I like Tmay but I can see absolutely no reason why those people aren't owed their percentages.

TMay posts in marketplace selling action.
TMay says send ASAP and it's booked.
People send money, therefore it is booked.

Anything else is just noise. Not having internet/forgetting/anything else is just an excuse. This is a business transaction and intentions don't really matter. I don't think TMay intended to scam people but there is no way in my mind that he can be let off the hook.

Also, like most people in this thread, I like TMay and I've never heard anyone say anything against him.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=857

looks like tmay didnt have very much of himself in this.


and not sure if it has been mentioned, but he said in the OP "selling up to 25%". the posters in this thread could see the 25% wasnt booked/accounted for yet, so why shouldnt their piece stand?

if redgrape knew his piece would have made it such that tim had say, 5% of himself in this tournament, he almost assuredly would not have purchased it, and forcing action in that spot would cause harm to everyone else with tim's action who expected him to have a different %age of himself.

that being said, i don't think anyone could argue the 3% being booked

how much did you have, and when did you buy the piece.


were you aware he already had a lot bought up?

Now even a blonde now thats most blondes can read and understand they above statement, ....Tmay you owe 13% i dont see much of an argument here And regardless of who your friends are on 2+2 or irl life, this community looks out for each other..your own friends, zima, and previous mod all agree you should pay ....

Looks like Tmay took second for $174,443 (barring any side deal):

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2011/0...wins-10127.htm

Very interested to see how this turns out.

I think this is exactly wrong. Intentions should be irrelevant.

The purpose of the marketplace is to facilitate large transactions between strangers. No one should have to guess at other peoples' intentions to arbitrate a dispute.

TMay clearly made a huge mistake in how he worded his "ship asap and you're booked" post and not closing the thread. And he made an even bigger mistake with his out of line post claiming the last two pieces bought were "sneak attacks". I'm sure he was very frustrated when he posted it and didn't realize how he was coming off, plus he was probably worn out from a long day of poker. For those who don't know, Tim is my brother. I can see he for sure made a mistake by not closing the thread once he sold out his action, but I can also guarantee he was not angling and genuinely didn't know these two people had tried to purchase action. I haven't spoken with him except for a congratulatory text on getting 2nd place, so I don't know for sure but my guess is he will try his best to rectify this situation. I do think there should be some sort of compromise, but I don't think it is fair to say that Tim must pay the full 13% either. Not many people itt seem to care that there was no confirmation of the action being booked, or that Redgrape's attempt came a week after Tim's "ship and you're booked" post. To send the money the day before the tournament started and a week after Tim's last post and assume the action is booked seems foolish to me. Tim only had a small piece of himself in this tournament, and for him to have to play this tourney for nearly nothing as a result of a technical error doesn't seem proper to me. I'm sure Tim will post itt soon and do a better job of handling this than his last post. As for McMatto's unnecessary post itt, idk why you think it's appropriate to litter this thread with a dumb and pathetic attempt at being funny. As far as I'm concerned McMatto, you're a punk and you're out of line. Also I think to say Tim's intentions are irrelelvant is wrong because there is no guessing at what his intentions were. I know for a fact he didn't mean to have this extra action sold and he was not trying to scam or freeroll those 2 guys. I'm not saying this is gonna be easy to rectify, but I don't think it is fair to hold Tim liable for all of the extra 13% because he was ignorant in his post. Some kind of agreement should be worked out. I hope this situation is worked out to appease both Tim and the attempted investors. And again, McMatto you're a douchebag

Intentions are always relevant, indeed paramount, in determining whether a contract has been formed. But they should be assessed objectively, and in light of whatever background standards exist. And in a case where everything is done in writing, that assessment should be based solely on what was written with a few exceptions probably not applicable here.

Ya, I agree.

Intentions are relevant. Speculations about intentions, based on information not present in the thread prior to the start of the tournament, are not.

Ya intentions are certainly relevant. If Tim sold the other 13% to someone else in real life, I think it's a very different situation than if he sees the thread with a big stack after day 1 and decides "nah I just binked a 5k imma keep this 13%." not to say he wouldnt have thought he had the 13% to strt the tourney, but it's also hard to know he would have shipped the money back if he went into day 2 with 10BB (or busto).

A lot of ppl are saying that Tim had a small piece of himself as if that should be relevant. Clearly before the 5k bink, he intended to sell 85%. So I think it's important to know if that 13% put him over 85% or not. Assuming it did not, the action certainly must stand. If it did, then I do think a compromise would be in order.

It is not hard to know if Tim would have kept the money if he busted day 1 or had 10bb, he 100% would have returned the money regardless of how the tourney went. And yes, that extra 13% would make it so Tim would have near 0% of his own action.

I think the 3% and the 10% need to be separated in this discussion.

OneTimeNow333 reserved 4% in Post #7. Tim replied in the very next post (#8) "ship online asap..once you ship you are booked". There was never a reply from Tim cancelling OneTimeNow333's reserve. OneTimeNow333 then shipped 3% of his reserved 4% before the start of the tournament.

That action is 100% booked. I can't really see any argument against OneTimeNow333 receiving his 3%.

I realize / appreciate that emotions are running high, and maybe it was "too soon", but McMatto's post was funny.

imo...

OT

ps- regardless of this mess, which is unfortunate, hell of a run, Tmay, hell of a run... 'grats on the scores.