Good point. I did an awful job as a friend here and can't really help anymore as I'm back home in Oklahoma :-/ In my defense, I didn't really understand this place and had no idea it would be as big of a deal/as clear cut as so many people think it is.

I just assumed the marketplace operated basically the same as if someone sold a piece in some LC thread somewhere and that it would not be confirmed until both buyer and seller confirmed. And yes, I realize that isn't a defense and makes me look like a moron... but there ya go.

jordan- fatal seems to have made a post saying he was aware there was still some later/last minute attempt to find a buyer for the last piece. Maybe I read it wrong.

Can you explain how that fits 1) into what you just said or 2) why changed circumstances should be a burden on the buyer and not the seller at that point.

Well, it's probably because if in this spot tmay and the people buying the pieces were friends, there would be no discussion and the piece would not be booked. Like the dude who said this happened to him but with text messages/a friend of his... they just called it off because he wouldn't have taken the money given a choice as he didn't want to sell anymore.

1) Fatal did confirm a last minute piece was available. It fits in because after winning 300k, Tim was clearly not concerned with figuring out who to sell the last piece to (to his detriment). He knew he could take his mind off it, travel, show up to the tournament and sell it to any of 20 people in that room.

Basically all I'm trying to say is that when a non-2p2 reg hits a score like that, the last place they will be looking to round out their next action is on 2p2.

2) I'm not saying they don't change for the seller too, I'm just saying that when circumstances change, they change for everyone. I just think this place would be better off if it required confirmation from the seller for each piece sold (especially if anything has changed at all from the time of the OP).

You have made your point of view clear. As somebody who invest and sells in the Marketplace very frequently and doesn't personally know any of the parties involved I have to respectfully disagree with you.

Your are friends with him which is fine but maybe you should step back since you are obviously going to be biased to the situation. Nobody is really questioning his morals but the marketplace operates a certain way and it is the sellers responsibility to close/cancel action before the event starts. I don't think exceptions should be made because he couldn't take 10 minutes and update his thread before it started. Talk about a grey area if exceptions like the OPs case are allowed.

I don't necessarily disagree with any part of #2 although often those changed circumstances may be unreasonable for buyer in this case to know or expect, and #1 is what it is. When you make a thread to sell here you have to treat it as diligently and carefully as every other avenue you are exploring. It's not plan B.

I remain optimistic that there's a successful resolution to this where no party goes away feeling overly screwed.

Come on dude. How could it ever be correct for a person to play for less than 0%?

pretty sure he was just answering the question posed, not commenting on whether is correct or not

jordan, how much did tim have of himself not counting the 13%?

I actually think the correct solution is to do the math on the $ev of tmays stack at the end of day 1 vs starting stack and they get 10% and 3% of that, and thats how i would have ruled this if i was arbitrating it.

which is btw, where this should go, to arbitration

Yeah I was just letting out some steam from an argument earlier... shouldn't have posted that... I'm probably done posting itt unless there is something specific I can answer as I'm sure I've rambled and repeated myself more than I usually do.

when did you buy your piece and how much do you have

The good part is you have a pretty definitive timeline of when the parties became aware of the issue and in some ways the compromise (if there can be one) has to be negotiated from that point.

However there are some other aspects to this that should be discussed but may involve disclosing details that shouldn't necessarily be disclosed in the thread to the public. Or maybe they will need to come out.

An argument could be made that the pool of "last investors" is bigger than the two who paid itt.


ugh also adding- you may want to recheck the timeline. it looks like the 3 percent guy was one of the first round of reserves and it wasn't cancelled on either side regardless of him sending a week later.

+1, I think this is a fair solution. Tmay's offer is not acceptable. Should def. arbitrate.

And also +1 to Tmay being a standup guy in spite of the actions in this thread. Pretty clear he just derp-derped himself into a stupid spot by being a forums fish.

of course the people saying he owes the full amount are probably 100% right anyways.

who are the last people OP sold to? you can clearly see when the people from this thread sent the money (through time stamps on poker sites transfer history/emails). So why wouldnt whatever money that was in OPs accounts/hands have the priority of action in this instance?


i dont really think this is the right way to deal with it, but just trying to throw out ideas.


if OP has like 40% of himself, he should obv just give up the 13% to the people in this thread who clearly booked the action and just think of it as a "lazy/hoi tax"

Being one of the investors in question, +1.

The only thing I still don't get, why everybody (starting with Tmay) is talking about 10%+3%, there was at least another 1% shipped after these 13%. So, what happened to it? Who got what part of the action anyway? Transparency in this question would definitely help.

+1 obv.

Guys, I really don't understand all the big deal that you all making of this situation. Anybody can make mistakes, especially technical mistakes like this. It's absolutely obvious here that there was no intention to do something bad. The huge amounts of money involved makes the situation little bit more confusing than it could be, but still — yes, he forgot to check the thread before the tournament. Let's kill him now...

I personally don't see any negative impact of this situation on Tim's business reputation — this stuff can happen to anybody.

I absolutely understand if the 13% share holders will decide to ask to pay them the EV of the stack at the moment of the cancelation message, it looks like a good solution.
And I really don't understand all the people that made 6 pages of posts in this thread, and have nothing to do with the deal — this is simple technical situation, without any signs of potential scam or any kind of bad intentions — why are you writing all this stuff?

gonna just skip all the other stuff in this post and go right to this...


this effects the whole marketplace. not just you/tmay/other people directly involved. the reason why 2p2 is what it is (where people like you can make so much money here) is becuase its a ever changing/self regulating market. the marketplace didnt start this way. it took time to be a great place to invest in people and the discussion thats happening now will help to shape the "better future marketplace".

maybe you are just trying to come in and trying to squash this because you have a huge peice of tmay and you want him to just concentrate on playing, but you posting this is quite ridiculous.


and no one is killing him. for the most part this thread is filled with respected members of the community talking about what should happen in a pretty weird situation.

I understand all the self regulating stuff, this is very good thing. I work at this marketplace more than anybody and interested in the self regulation and in any other kind of regulations. But I also interested in peaceful solutions of conflicts, logical approach and good atmosphere, otherwise the problems won't be solved, and players will say "I better sell something privately because here they will kill me for any mistake". I don't like all the people that don't work here jumping into a conflict and making it not peaceful.
Almost nobody here talk about solutions — in this situation Tim and the two guys with the 10% and 3% need to seat and decide what to do now. In some cases they can ask neutral person to decide on this situation.
Normal civilized solution of disagreement like this.

All the stuff that is written here except of the offered solutions can be written in case that one side of the conflict, that holds the money, says "f**k off everybody, I won't do anything with this". Or if we can see an intention to cheat.
Here is obvious that neither of this cases is working, so what the big deal at this moment? I'm sure Tim after he will finish the tournament will meet with the investors, hear what they have to say on it, say what he have to say, try to reach an agreement. If they won't agree, then it is a problem, yes.
What the big deal now? What the point? "he shouldn't forget to check the thread before the start"?

there are people talking about solutions in this thread.

this stuff needs to be talked about so other people dont make the same mistakes in the future.

the "big deal" at this moment is this is happening at the moment and people want to talk about it to see how it can be fixed and some good may come out of it to further evolve the marketplace.


and yeah, he shouldnt forget to check the thread before the mtt starts. seems pretty obvious.

Max- I'll assume you include me among those having nothing to do with it. I modded in here for a while, I have a good idea of not only how the marketplace works, but strong ideas of how it should work.

Regardless of the outcome of this there are many elements to this thread and what happened that represent how it should not work imo.

For example- I have no idea what this post means wrt to this thread.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...07&postcount=4

If that's a sold percentage of this package it should be in the thread and accounted for as it goes. If it's not part of this package it only serves to add further confusion.

I'm not partial to either side here, but opening the door to factors such as intent of a thread to be open at the time action is booked could set a dangerous precedent.

This post is key, TMay seems to be saying this post was a reply to a individual potential investor, but it sure looks like an open invitation to any potential stakers that if they send him the cash online, they are booked.

Obviously seems TMay is forum newbie, but that is not enough of a defence imo.

The shares obviously should stand.

In http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/18...n-event-996841 Tmay posted midway through the thread

the wording isn't exactly the same, but I definitely would have inferred that it applies to everyone in this thread as well