This won't really help resolve this situation- but here's how threads like this should ideally go (not from a seller or buyer perspective, but here's a former mod's view)

The onus always is on the seller to keep up to date with his own thread, even more so as a basic responsibility if the thread isn't the only place action is being bought up.

This means confirming action purchased, closing it to further purchases due to being sold out, and providing as much information as reasonably possible at every step. At the end of the day it's still your thread and your issue when something goes wrong even when well intentioned, so take steps to minimize issues.

Sure seems it's not an intentional mislead, just an oversight. I don't know what any solution is, just things that can be done in the future to prevent it.

And I feel this is important enough to not bury it in among the other points just made- if someone negotiates a biggish piece in PMs/ elsewhere and it doesn't make it into the thead explicitly it leads to problems. I'm not sure when this became commonplace or even allowed, but it's a pretty poor policy that was bound to create or contribute to problems almost exactly like this and should be relooked.

ive known tim for awhile now, as nice as they come, & im sure he wasn't angling

that being said, this 13% he sold is clearly booked. he opened a thread, accepted transfers, and did not do anything to indicate before the event started that their pieces weren't booked.

i think it's clearly booked as apefish says it's pretty obvious that the onus is on tmay to let everyone know sold out before the tourney starts in this thread if it's done privately.

but, as charder points out it might not be as cut and dry as just giving them their pieces because he could have over 100% now sold and other investors were buying pieces thinking tmay had x% of himself not x% - 13%, which, in their eyes, could affect tmay's play.

I think in this instance, it's clear tmay isn't angling, and a compromise should be reached. what i'd do is refund the pieces and give the two pieceholders a 1% and .3% freeroll respectively

+1

I can vouch for him showing up to the 10k late and not being on a computer until this AM. I am sharing a room with him in Rincon (and no, I don't have a piece of him). He was clearly distraught when he saw the money on his FTP account and it took him a minute to figure out where it had come from.

The mods can check when he logged in recently if that might help to see when he possibly saw it.

I don't think there's much if any questioning about motive, intentions, etc. The issue as it pertains to the marketplace in general is about procedure and resolution imo.

You have someone/s who shipped money and had every reason to believe he/they had action. And you have the seller explaining his mistake/s. That's the basics in various form of every thread that has an issue in the marketplace. Some times it's dodgy stuff and other times like this it's simple not tying up loose ends or paying close enough attention prior.

The mistake though is completely on one side and never to the detriment of the person making it in an instance like this if there's nothing binding about the actions the buyers took.
Mistakes don't have to necessarily be punished, and they needn't be viewed harshly. That said it's a pretty serious mistake given the nature of staking and how people should hope the marketplace works. In that context, proper resolution of it is probably something more than "sorry my bad" even though as an explanation that's probably what happened. Some times mistakes put the person making them in a ****ty spot where the ultimate outcome isn't what they would have hoped, but is what they created.

To some extent the seller has to mollify the person/s that perceive being wronged, not just provide an explanation or proof of how they feel.

I understand there were a lot of innocent factors leading to this mishap. I did not realize at the time it had been a week since he posted.

That being said, despite the fact that it really seems like he isn't scamming, I have a hard time believing despite his intention to transfer me the money back if he busted that he'd actually do it. Imagine him telling his friend about this situation, it wouldn't be so far fetched that the friend would say "well he clearly thinks the action is booked so its booked, even if you posted in the thread if you in fact did well he would probably insist that he had your action." Also, who's to say he even checks this thread all the way through, or his transfers to see wait, why is this extra 1.2k in my account?

Honestly, I'd be fine using an arbitrator here if he still see's it differently.

Tmay, not trying to be a douche, just trying to get fairness on my side.

I 110% agree tmay wasn't angling, I think that's obv out of the question. I also agree w/ whoever said that a 1% and .3% freeroll is fair. I wish this issue would have been taken care of before he started today. He had a nice chip stack going into today and the freeroll option probably would have been pretty fair but if he ends today with the chip lead going into day 3 I feel like it's just going to be a lot harder to decide what exactly is fair.

i also know tim and know he wasn't angling, but i also agree that the action should be booked. and if a freeroll is worked out, 1% and .3% just isn't enough given how much equity he had at the beginning of the day... should be more like 3.3% and 1% or something IMO

Did all of you miss that this thread had lay dormant for one week?

And that during that time the OP won $300k in a tournament?

And that when he said ship and it is booked he was responding to someone else in this thread?

I just don't see how given the facts above and that there is no argument about motives or angling that you all think he should be punished and possibly play a tournament for 0% or open the door to where he could have possibly played for a negative % (I don't know what % he has left or w/e so this is just speculation).

Clearly it was unprofessional not to close the thread, but it was also unprofessional of the buyer to not confirm there were still pieces for sale.

jordan,

you must be joking. i realize your tims friend & all, but to imply that the buyers were at fault here in the least is crazy talk. he had an open thread selling pieces to a 10k mtt, and they (the buyers) did everything 100% correct wrt booking the action as it was stated in the thread.

it really does not matter at all that he won another mtt b/t the time that this thread was posted and rincon started. he still knew he had this thread up, yet chose not to come here & close the action.

I'm not really saying they did anything wrong, I just know if I were buying a piece in a thread like this I would make sure it was still available unless it 100% obviously were.

Not that anyone is questioning it, but i can confirm tim thought he still needed to sell 10% to play up until the tournament started.

This situation is normally one i'd say is autobooked but for the reasons jordan posted its at least close without confirmation after this length of time

edit: i guess it's not rly close, sucks for tim but he's got too many chips now to offer a small freeroll and this would set a terrible precedent

I admit, I suppose I could have confirmed there were still pieces, but I have never done that once in my short time staking people in the marketplace.

I'm not saying he should be "punished." There are really two main reasons I think the bet should stay booked. One, the transfer was made, action was not said to be closed, he said transfer meant booked, and the tournament started. Two, what Tmay basically said is that he knows he would have sent back the money either way. I don't think even an honest person (which I believe Tmay to be) can say that with much certainty. Who knows what would have happened had he busted out a few hours into day 1? I'm wondering what directed him back to this thread in the middle of a tournament in the first place?

He woke up and unpacked and got his computer out and saw he had extra ftp money, so then he tried to figure out where it came from.

1) it sucks for seller that it did. If anything that's all the more reason sellers should indicate where their thread is at as they go.

2) ???? winning or losing money in the meantime is irrelevant unless you are using it to support how busy he was, in which case I guess I'd say so? nobody thinks he was intentionally avoiding the thread. I mean being busy just isn't a reason you leave a thread open really. okay, he forgot, and someone sent him money and he gots dem chips. now what?

3) idk. seems something standardish you say encouraging people to buy asap whether responding to a particular post or in general- and all the more reason to put SOLD OUT on the thread once you reach that point.


I'd also in a buyer's shoes attempt to confirm asap that I have what I paid for, but a buyer has a lot less control over how that happens and gets answered than the seller has of keeping up with his own thread.

The sooner this gets worked out the better for all parties involved. I see Tim is 4/18 going into tomorrow and I'm sure this is the last thing he wants to deal with but it will make everyone's lives much easier (including his) if he deals w/ this now rather than after the tourney is already over. Imsolucky0, can you have him check this thread when he wakes up in the a.m.

it seems like he is going with "its not booked/i didnt wanna sell that much"


how much do you have of yourself in this tmay. would this 13% put you over 100%?


if you have like 50% of yourself...

I feel really bad for TMay, but I think posting my thoughts here is still better than texting him in terms of f/ing with his head deep in a tournament, so:

IMO he has to give up the over-sold % for all the reasons elucidated by Apefish, Zima, Charder, Sub, Imawhale and others.

I am good friends with Tim, and I really want what's best for him (so if he's reading this, it should say something that I decided to post).

So I should add to Tim:

It's also by far the right thing for your career/rep and your marketplace rep.

It sucks that you are paying a high price for neglecting this thread, but that's what is happening--you are paying a penalty for not properly navigating marketplace.

It's not correct in any way to take advantage of this forum for the purpose of a major staking investment but then not own up to the technical mistakes you made in handling the sale.

If I were you, I would beg for leniency (perhaps the extraneous investors will give you a break of some kind), but be prepared to do the clearly right thing and play for 13% less.

how about a compromise of 5% and 1.5% ? would maintain the integrity of the marketplace and lend some sympathy to tmay's honest mistake / smaller percentage situation.

That info is very important to the situation. The reason I suggested the small freeroll earlier (albeit I thought yesterday was an off day before day 2 and he was going to have time to sort this out) was because you can really mess with the other investors equity if you book that oversold 13%. Can you imagine if you privately bought 50% of the action thinking Tmay had 20% of himself, then it comes to pass that he only has 7% of himself? I'd be pretty upset if I was that guy. How does he get compensated for the mistake?

Obviously there is a % that tmay has of himself that won't effect the EV of the other investors *that* much if he books this extra 13%. If he's in that ballpark, then he's gotta honor that 13%. It gets real messy if he's not, and I really don't know what's fair at this point, but possibly something like gboro suggested. This is why it was pretty important to reach a fair decision prior to getting 4 of 18 in a $10k. I know it's tough to find time while playing live on the road to handle this sort of stuff, but something really should have been attempted.

Playing for 0% or a <0% is just not fair to his other investors who have nothing to do with this.

Shane I am not sure you are right here, and obviously you must think you are beyond a shadow of a doubt to post that because I know that you are a huge TMay fan and supporter. The thing is TMay was responding to others who had 1 week ago said they were "in". He was telling those guys in not so many words..."ok I see u are claiming a piece, talk is cheap, ship the loot and you are in bitches"

Nothing was in the OP claiming that no matter what anyone could ship to book because that concept is ridiculous and is obvious to cause problems like we have now.

The thread was dormant for a week. I think at that point, Redgrape or whoever else wants to book needs to confirm with TMay that the action is set in stone.

As far as would Tim have shipped back, I believe it cause I believe that he was sold out meaning he sold 10K worth of action and got only a freeroll. Do you really see him keeping more than the buyin for the event? (FatalError said that Tim needed to sell 10 more right before the event, but forgot to mention that he got it sold)

Also Redgrape, did you know TMay won the Wynn? Not saying any wrongdoing with you here but if u knew he won the Wynn then not noticing the original date of the OP seems like a big error. If u noticed this important thing than u prob would have made sure to confirm