Final argument, and I'm seriously done with this. People know me and my rep. Don't buy action from me in the future if you think I'm going to try to scam. I never EVER would try to tarnish my integrity for any amount of money, let alone $250 and that is exactly why I'm not going to let someone who is clearly lying (see below) freeroll me.

I didn't send a PM first yesterday. Stuart posted in the thread at 11:20am PST. You saw it, realized an opportunity, you sent me a PM that you're sending the money at 12:03pm PST.

From the lock transfer window, time of initiation of transfer 2012-12-12 08:07:51 PM GMT which is 12:07:51pm PST.

I have already told you that I'll provide my chrome history to prove I didn't see the thread before I sent the money. I had every intention to pay the $320 lock for 4% and even sent you a PM a few days telling you I had been away and hadn't had a chance to send. The idea of me waiting for you to have a score to send the money in an attempt to freeroll you is ludicrous.

If the situation were reversed, and you had bricked the entire package, and I had still not remembered to send the you $320 lock yet, I'm very certain I'd be receiving a PM stating "Where is my money, you clearly booked in this thread"

I told you on the 9th that I had been away and to remind me on skype to send the money. On the 9th you added me on skype. If you had cancelled my action, why even bother adding me?

I'm telling you that I had no intention to freeroll you. I was unaware you were playing/winning this tournament when I sent the money. You have a number of people in this thread telling you that my action should stand. No one is defending you besides a mutual acquaintance who has said "both of us were wrong"

I've been very polite in dealing with this, providing every piece of evidence to support my claim, yet all you have done is insist that I am trying to take a shot at you.

Back to business. Report on the package so far

Event #1, #2 busted
Events #3, #4A, #4B didn't play 3x$365 = $1,095 (plus markup)
Events #5, #6 busted
Events #7 $10,858
Event #8 didn't play $365 (plus markup)
Event #9 - I'm not going to play because 1) field going to be too small 2) rather take the day off to cool down $1,125 (plus markup)

So there's $1,095 + $365 + $1,125 = $2,585 in unused buyins. I would like to add the Friday ME heat and the $580 to the package out of this. I've already talked with jw123, rrinker, winwin and my private investors and they agreed. I'm pretty sure spfeifer22 has no issue with it, and I'll wait for confirmations from phoox and juicestain100.

Val,

I'd like to end this dispute. Would you agree to have a 3rd party review the thread and our correspondences and make a decision?

I'd prefer not to have to give negative feedback on you, as it would hurt your attempts to sell future action, but if you don't at least agree to have someone take a look at it, I will do just that.

- Dan

I'm not saying you were waiting. I'm saying you decided to not buy, and then saw an opportunity to make money and you tried to take it. You weren't planning on it happening like that.

You're lying. You can erase a page from Chrome history, it's very simple. Timestamps don't lie though.

I would never do that. Who knows me personally also knows that fact, and it's pretty obvious.

Please give all the negative feedback that you want. I've built a reputation and I don't think a let's call you opportunist would do anything to damage it. You definitely are lying you know it, and whatever you do it will follow you.

People have posted on my behalf without me asking them to. Not one, many. It boils down to no money, no action like tarheelkid23 said.

I just want to say congrats on the ring

On the issue of 4% it's hard to tell who's right or wrong but hope it all gets worked out

Cheers

Why did you send me a PM after busting the first event inquiring as to the status of the action?

Why did you add me on skype 4 days after the event began to remind me of our pending action?

There is no way to prove that I didn't have any idea of you being at the FT when I sent the money. I gave you a way to check, and you assumed I would alter history to benefit my claim. I'm simply giving you my word which has backed >1M of deals on this site, and can be vouched upon by countless references.

I've bought/sold countless pieces for long MTT series (WSOP, WSOPE, EPT's) where money was exchanged during or even after the event. If this wasn't the case, the player would always have an opportunity to freeroll the investors if he had a score.

This isn't about the money, it's a very inconsequential amount as you've stated yourself. It's more about the fact that you are accusing me of taking a shot at you, when it's blatantly obvious that you are the one that has freerolled me.

Your 1 friend who substantiated your claim as to "no money, no action" also agreed that you should have mentioned the action was cancelled at the beginning of the event. Not after busting event 1 and asking where the money is. Not 5 days into the even asking where the money is.

Every claim you make in regards to the timestamps are 100% accurate. I sent the $ to you after spfeifer posted in this thread that you were CL entering the final table. The entire argument boils down to you thinking I saw that post and then decided to send money for the package. I didn't, which you can believe or not I frankly do not care.

However, our action was booked once I posted that I wanted it, and you confirmed the rate of lock funds for $. Anybody reading this thread will agree with that. It was unfortunate that I wasn't able to send the money right away before the start of the event, but that does not simply cancel my action.

Once I post in the thread that I want action, and you confirm the amount and tell me where to send, I don't have the option not to buy unless I expressly tell you "I do not want the action"

Congrats Val on getting that 2nd ring.

My thoughts on the dispute in this thread. I'm not sure if I can be considered a third party, but I have been a MP reg the past 2 years, buying around 60-80 packages. I think you must send funds before having a completed investment. I have done so 100% of the time. If someone did not send funds before the start of an event, I think it's considered no action.

If the general consensus is that "no money, no action" I am more than fine with that outcome.

You need to get off your high horse of integrity as you clearly were expecting the shipment of funds 1 day and 4 days after the start of the event. So every post you make claiming that the action was cancelled because money was not received prior to the start of the event is moot.

I would still prefer to have a 3rd party (preferably a marketplace Mod) look at the situation and make a decision. The fact that you've ignored my request makes me feel even stronger you know your argument is invalid.

Also please stop accusing me of doing anything wrong as all I have done is booked action and sent money. You never cancelled my action or gave me any indication that it was not booked, until after you had locked up a profit.

Had you bricked this event that you won, you'd have $320 in your lock account and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Congrats on the ring, please let me know if we can have a 3rd party look settle on our dispute. If not I'll simply post a link to this thread in every one of your future posts selling action and let investors decide for themselves.

I'm not going to drag your name through the mud, but I will give everybody looking to invest in you all of the details of this transaction gone sour.

Think the 'no money, no action' thing is not valid as plenty of action is bought up without shipping of money right away, especially post bf with it being less convenient to send money to others. The fact that notontilt is a reputable buyer I also think is relevant as obviously if it was some rando with 10 posts this situation would obviously be different. Finally because busto did nothing to clarify that he wasn't booked (or post a final investor list) and in fact did a few things to lead notontilt to believe he was booked (post in thread, pm, add on Skype, refusing a 3rd party arbitrator) I think the action should be booked.

Does anyone disagree with the fact that if busto bricked the series notontilt would owe the money? Bc of that alone, the action should be booked.

Guess I should clarify the 'no money, no action' should not be considered relevant in all cases as it obviously leaves room for the seller to free roll investors as I've said that plenty of action on here is booked without sending money before the first event (or even before completion of the whole package)

I don't know any of you guys but just happened to be skimming the MP and came across this.

The ONLY way notontilt's action isn't booked is if busto would have sent a pm, or posted itt, that he had a definitive date/time to receive the money or action isn't booked. In live staking, this occurs all the time; people showing up days into the series and giving money for their shares; giving the money at the next tourney stop they see each other; TRUSTED investors just saying they want to book and figure it out after the series what is owed to whom. etc.(not saying this is what happened here, just saying it happens)

There is nothing shady about not paying right away when buying shares if, and only if, you are a reputable investor. You take the man's word because it has merit, and if he screws you over, then you have all the right to black ball him. Until then though, all action is considered booked unless you give a date/time to receive before action is cancelled.

For the 5th time I never gave you any action. You posting in my thread that you want some does not give you any action. If I say "reserved" and put you on the list you are reserved. It's as simple as that. There's nothing to be cancelled when it never existed in the first place.

Please do anything you need to do. I know who I am and what I stand for. I know for a fact you were just trying to take a freeroll, and you are blatantly lying (as the timestamps prove.)

I've sold hundreds of tournaments over tens of packages, both on 2p2 and live and I've always paid everybody.

I'm not going to give you any money and you can refer everyone to this thread at any point.

1) if you never gave me action, why did you non-directly ask for money two separate times after busting events?

2) explain to me why I have bought/sold numerous packages and have over >1M of package related transfers through 2p2, with everything going smoothly, and then out of the blue I would try and freeroll you for 4% of a 6k package.

3) why is nobody saying i'm in the wrong in this thread? I agree I should have sent right away, some people have commented on that. Not one person besides you has seen the freerolling portion of our debate from your side.

if we had had 0 contact between you sending me the your lock info, and me sending $$$ yesterday, I would say you have a point. But you asked or reminded me to send the money 2 times in between those events. Thus my action was clearly 100% booked in your eyes, until you binked the tourney. Then it became very convenient that you hadn't added me to the list.

And I'll report every troll post you make in his threads and have it deleted.

After further review it's apparent that you had plenty of time to ship your reserve, and you choose to have it "slip your mind" as you say. You were shipping LOCK, not bank wire etc, if you had family over or not it's as simple as opening up the LOCK client and shipping your share, as you already had the OPs info to ship.

It seems that even after the first event was done OP still gave you the opportunity to ship you share and again you did not choose to as this point, why you didn't who knows. It's not fair that you come looking for your piece after OP ships, when you had plenty of time to ship before after reminders given to you. With no clear intent that you wanted the action, it can't be booked, plain and simple imo.

You then decide to ship your share after OP wins an event? That's just not right and it's a shame you're putting this solely on him, trying to make him look like the bad guy here when in fact it's you who had ample time to ship and confirm your share but chose not to. OP never reserved/booked you, he gave you the OPTION (multiple times) to ship via LOCK for the 4% remaining, and you chose not to, don't see what's so hard here?

Meh not going to comment on this again, because after further reviewing the thread and letting it play out, it's apparent that - No money shipped after multiple reminders = No action booked.

Plenty of people have said so. You're probably ignoring them. All these guys are among the most trusted and respected people on 2p2 and in general around the poker circuit. Here's a quick reminder.
And actually Turb0Licious underlined it pretty well. Can't really say more than I already did and the above quotes.

it's a good post from turbo, however, I never decided to send the money after he was at the FT. I simply forgot to send until yesterday, which happened to coincide with him being at the FT. You can believe this or not, this is not what is being debated here.

What is being debated is was my action booked or not. So I'm simply asking Busto,

1) why did you ask for money 2 separate times after the event started if you had considered my action cancelled?

perfectly reasonable decision, if you hadn't asked for the money 2 times after the event started, therefore confirming my action.

It is perfectly reasonable to get funds to a person midway or after a tournaments series given the current condition of the poker market.

Val,

I don't see what the difficulty is of having a 3rd party come in, that neither of us are acquainted with, and make a decision as to whether or not my action should stand. We both feel that we are getting taken advantage of and have presented our cases, and are not getting anywhere.

If you agree to do that we can simply end this discussion, as we clearly are not getting anywhere, and I have plenty of time to keep arguing.

Well I have a life, so I don't have time. In fact as of now on you are simply on my ignore list. I won't even see your posts. I already explained more than sufficiently and dedicated too much time and energy to this. Every post is going to be related to the package at hand.

Terrible communication by both parties and this is what it leads to. Not sure why it takes so long for people to ship $ for the action they bought, also dont understand why busto sent a PM leading notontilt on that his action was still pending. I def think it is fair to have someone judge that is a higher up and very knowledgeable in staking/action bought like Zima and maybe a few others. Otherwise congrats on the ship busto and gl to both parties getting this sorted out.

Ya I mean even if u were 100% in the right here (ur not) the way u have handled his / others questions (that are very reasonable) is pretty ridiculous.

well Val will not see this message since I am ignore, but just for future reference...

instead of answering my questions or agreeing to arbitration which, in the worst case scenario for you, would involve you paying out 4% of a small package, you choose to ignore my reasonable questions and block my posts. You aren't helping yourself here.

turbo,

your points are all valid, but I did confirm my share on the 9th (before this event won by Val had even begun) by PM when I asked Val to send me a reminder on skype and he did so without any mention of action being cancelled.