bump for all the new WSOP packages

exactly.

Ton of packages coming in now, and even more being bumped and revised with less events and lower MU, which is smart IMO in regards to replacing higher BI events someone doesn't belong in with softer, value packed events. I feel investors are really keen this year and obviously aren't as many private funds in the MP openly buying up a ton of action, hence making the competition for WSOP packages much more competitive this year.

It might be taken the wrong way but I would suggest to those having trouble selling out to sell their WSOP/VDSE package at face value IMO. If you can't sell off the package as it stands with MU, I feel you should put every effort into attracting investors in hopes of making it out this year for WSOP. Are there some players/packages worth higher MU? Sure, but in the end investors will buy up action as they see it most +EV for them (with respect to the players stats, etc) and packages that don't have a ton of dead money tied up with overlapping events, etc.

Since the packages starting rolling out and the new ones coming in I just see some things that don't add up, and it shows with the lack of interest they get. There are just too many players adding in events they have little to no experience in, for example even though I haven't seen a ton of this but the Mixed-Max, I've seen it in a few packages yet I'm sure 80%+ of those listing it haven't played a Mixed-Max format before, and with the $5K tag on it. For this event, I feel you need a strong ring, 6max and HU game to have an edge in this event, the same goes with the 4max event, these are specialized events IMO not events you include because they look unique.

Really hope to see a lot of 2p2ers selling out and going deep in their events this summer but I strongly feel packages should be better structured. VDSE has a ton of events that runs parallel to WSOP and I'd like to see more of these events included in packages this summer, and not just their $1Ks, $2Ks, etc I'm talking $400-$600 events that have a lot of value in them with softer fields. I would even like to see sole VDSE packages, with maybe 1-2 $1K WSOPs built in for value of course.

To anyone posting packages....do some research and put some thought into your markup. 30% is not the standard.

i know the argument was kind of older, but it seems to be coming up again...

complaining about markup is seriously the worst thing ever. if markup on a package is too high then it will not sell. when a package is marketed at 1.x % and then sells out in 20 minutes it was clearly priced competitively

you don't go into starbucks bitching about how you're not going to buy their coffee because their prices are too high and you would only pay $1.25 for a cup, you simply drive by and don't say a word.

Sorry didn't mean to come off as a complaint.

Just trying to save some people time as the markups this year have been far too high and they have zero chance of selling out.

Believe me I am not complaining, I wouldn't buy some of these packages at face value.

EDIT: If anything, I am complaining about peoples lackadaisical approach to setting their markups. As one of the bigger MP investors...yes that does piss me off.

I kind of agree with both points. I see people starting to sell main at 1.3-1.4 but they have an ungodly good ROI and proven track record. I see others selling 1.4-ish and have all of $50k online winnings total (Not profit). I think post BF it's still a buyers marketplace, and people will pay 1.6-1.9 (I bet people buy Galen at that,) for some people and people wouldn't pay face value for others even though I think anyone who knows how to get to the 2p2 marketplace has at least a 1.05 value in that kind of field.

Too many people are trying to basically freeroll hotels and plane tickets and 20-30% of themselves.

Meh. There's plenty of bad players who post bad packages. Nothing you can do about it. Last year I bet half of posted packages had to be remade with lower markup. I doubt this year will be any different.

wasn't talking about you in particular, sorry if it came off that way.

i actually agree that people often times do sell way too high. i pass on a good majority of packages on this forum because markups are too high.

with that being said. if you do think someones markup is too high, their thread is NOT the place to point this out. a polite PM would often times go a lot further than just posting "LOL @ markup" in the thread.

i agree with this a lot. and this just goes to show you, packages that are priced poorly do not sell and sellers are forced to re-package them differently. the marketplace will sort itself out as supply and demand changes...

I guess this is just a buyer's market.

Will be that way for a while. I'm talking about myself and others. I don't have amazing results, but have shown a good ROI over 6k+ games and really struggling at how I should price my package based on the tournaments I'm playing. Most of these tournaments play like a $26FO if not less, esp at the Venetian. Now where is the fine line between making a competitive markup without giving away the value of yourself?

I see people year after year with half a million (500k) in prizes and 100k+ profit playing average buyin of around $75-80 along with a few live results in comparable events (1k+). They are not selling out at 1.25-1.3. Now this is pretty absurd assumption that this person won't crush their markup. I know the sample size of 10-25 tournaments is very small, but I really would just like advice on where to draw the line on giving away free equity due to buyers not wanting to pay MU.

It's a buyers market because sellers are desperate to sell and be able to play the WSOP.
It's a buyers market because there just isn't as much money in the MP after black friday.

People also realize that playing online at a 20% ROI with few/no real live results doesn't translate into some live sicko. I'm sure I'm not the only person that would rather have a guy who consistently wins live than a guy who consistently wins online.

The problem is not just what your own equity is. Like you said, this is a market, and there are literally hundreds of players with 600K winnings/100K profit. If you want to sell, you HAVE to give up some equity.

There are also many more considerations to make, some of which Galen mentioned in some great posts he made in the past. IE: how has the player performed under pressure when playing for big amounts. How many big scores that person has; how many top 3's, or better off what percentage of top 3 finishes he has after a good enough amount of final tables.

I buy a lot of action privately, run a fairly sized stable, and it's quite frequent to take more action for live events or higher buy ins online mtts from ppl with less overall profit than others I pass on.

If you OPR someone and find out that 90% of his bigger scores are top 3, you'll take more action or pay more MU for him than someone else with probably more overall profit but only 40% of top 3's.

When investing in WSOP packages you assume a large amount of your investments won't turn out a profit, but if your horses are guys who know how to handle the pressure of those big final tables, some of them are gonna make you a ton of money.

Basically, the mindset of the investor in live packages is completely different that the one buying action for 180's or 10$ fo's. At least that's the way I see it tho.

Many of these players aren't selling on the marketplace since they have personal buyers who take their action already

Thanks for the answers guys. Lot of other factors that go into buying, which in turn should make seller's think about their markup as well.

Joe, Many aren't, but many are.

Easy +1 @OP

Agreed gl at swop everyone

Cant agree with this post more.
I think many first timers playing WSOP events in Vegas arent mentally prepared. The event as a whole is massive, and the "energy" of it can be overwhelming..

I personaly prefer guys who break packages up, prelims seperate from the main.

I mean what the OP says should be the norm, and would avoid buyers from the exposure of what happened to Ezra.

Excellent post OP, keep spreading your insite for the betterment of the 2p2 community.

Good luck in any events you play this year.

what happened to Ezra?

Disagree pretty strongly but I'm probably just bitter since I win way less tournaments than most people

I'll use an extreme example to illustrate my point, bare with me:

Joe2244, sng grinder with 400K profits, amazing graph, biggest score 4K, never ft'd a MTT above 20$, sells action for WSOP.

Peter3355, 400K in profits, several final tables in 50$+ mtts, most of them are top 3, biggest score 100K, sells action for same events as Joe.

Now lets assume both players get together and work on each other's games for 6 months to the point that they have equal skills.

If you could only invest in one of them, who would it be? I personally will feel more confident about Peter's decisions under the pressure of a big score.

PS: don't worry about your results, if you keep working hard one day you'll get there

Oh ya, I definitely agree with that example, I thought you meant something along the lines of

Al123 whas 2million in buyins, 600k in profit over 10,000 MTTs 200ABI with a 30% ROI including 3rd in the FTOPS main, and winning the sunday million and winning the supersonic for a combined 540k as well as many other big wins

Bob789 has 2million in buyins, 600k in profit, 10000 MTTs 200ABI with a 30% ROI but his 3 biggest scores are 12th in the WCOOP main, 8th in the million and 5th the warmup for a combined 160k

Here I hope everyone would rather invest in Bob but I'm sure there are plenty of people in poker who would choose otherwise

wait what? why would you ever pick bob?

^Bob and not close obviously.

I mean...Bob runs like ****, why would I ever pick a guy who's obviously cursed?