In Level 4 of the main. Blinds 200/400 with a 50 ante. Hero has about 60-65K at this point. Had been playing pretty aggressively earlier in the day showing down some loose opens, but had tightened up lately.

Villain is a young American player who had been playing very well up until this point. Had built a stack of around 100K by stacking a fish who jammed with TP into his made flush, but in addition to that was playing a very solidly aggressive style with no overly apparent leaks that I could see. We hadn't tangled too much because we were at opposite ends of the table.

Villain opens from UTG to 900. I have JdJh in MP and flat. We go to the flop heads up.

Flop comes KdQd4d giving me the second nut FD. Villain bets 1/2 pot. I call.

Turn is a blank, something like an offsuit 7. Villain bets 1/2 pot. I call again.

River completes the flush, some lowish card like a 5. Villain bets 8K (2/3 of pot). I call.

Standard play?

I like the line, I'm not sure if we should be raising this flop because we probably never have KK/QQ for value so we're looking at KQ/44/flopped flushes and I've learned from other threads we'd probably need Ad to bluff here.

Calling turn is meh but I dont hate it.

dont play this big or live but also not in love with turn, prob would fold. your outs are never nuts and he can have better a lot

3bet pre

Nah

Think you played it great

I would prob hero fold turn, depending on my feel. River is same.

I like how a $22 and a $10k are now in the same forum

Easy 3b pre, wth? we are a gazillion bbs deep.
I fold turn, poor blocker qualities in terms of removing his bluffs, not winning at SD that often without improvement, and drawing to second nuts. Calling is obv ok, minor mistake if it is one.
Gotta call river once you get there against someone younger than 30.

I agree with the others, fold on the turn I think is best.

pretty much this lol

[/QUOTE]Easy 3b pre, wth? we are a gazillion bbs deep.
I fold turn, poor blocker qualities in terms of removing his bluffs, not winning at SD that often without improvement, and drawing to second nuts. Calling is obv ok, minor mistake if it is one.
Gotta call river once you get there against someone younger than 30.[/QUOTE]

And this, but imho, calling turn when no FD hits isnt a mistake, you keep his bluff in. dont think that 3b pre is the way to go even gazillion bb deep. The structure is just too good to play anything higher variance

Disclaimer : not trying to advice anything, just OOC.

What's the idea behind the flat call on pre-flop instead of 3-bet? For me it always seems better to 3-bet in such a spot in order to prevent the multiway pot scenario if the big blind calls because he receives nice pot odds after we flatted. E.g. in this hand these BB's pot odds are 5.6 : 1 assuming that the total ante equals to 1 big blind..

Thanks all. Yeah turn was where I was wondering about whether I should’ve folded.

Thoughts on turning it into a bluff raise on turn?

Results were he has AA with the Ad

Turn is close between call and fold, agree. Raising turn seems very very optimistic. What are we representing? What hands hit the 3 way parlay of beats us, barrels twice, and folds to turn raise?

Maybe hands with the naked Ad, although now that I think twice, they probably call the turn raise and see a river. Yeah bluff raise is tough since we have fewer sets in our range than villain.

But shouldn’t we have some bluff combos to balance out the times we flop a flush? If so, having the Jd seems like a good candidate since we probably prefer to call down when we have the Ad since most hands with the naked Ad are AQ.

Or are we just not raising our flushes and just calling down in those cases?

And if they are just the naked Ad, they don't beat us. I don't think AdKx or AdQx is ever folding to a turn raise. Yeah, pretty impossible for us to have a set, if we have 44, if we want to raise we are probably raising flop, not turn. I guess we could have peeled flop with 7d7x but meh.

Is the right strat to flat pre with 100% vs. EP open or have some 3-bets? That colors my thinking a little bit about whether I want to have raises on the turn or not. If I can have some trapped KK/QQ here then I don't mind using JdJx or TdTx sometimes as a bluff.

As played turn feels like it's a bit too high in our range to fold (we're going to have some one-pair hands without a diamond and maybe hands like JT/AT that we can give up turn with) but it is the main and I've never played it so who knows.

But what are we trying to make fold when we raise turn with JdJx? Are we counting on villain to double barrel something like AsKs and fold turn when we raise?

That's why I wonder if we want to have any turn raises here at all. My point was that if we were going to have raises here (like if we have QQ/KK in our range and want to get value from AA, Adxx, etc.) we will want to have a few bluffs and blocking flushes our opponent could have seems relevant.

turning hand into bluff on turn > high variance

would play same to turn, and turn is so opponent and gameflow dependent that i'd call and fold equal amounts.

Edit: bluff raising the turn is only justified if we're intending to barrel brick rivers, but there may be better spots to light $10k on fire.