We are in the money on Day 4 of the WSOP Main Event. We have made several pay jumps but they are still relatively small so no ICM considerations in this spot.

Blinds: 6K/12K/12K (ante)
V1~1.4M
Hero ~ $525K
V2 ~ $550K
Blinds are both defending with expected %'s

V1-Daniel Hachem (Joe's son) is chipleader and has been opening wide ~40-50% when folded to but playing very passively post-flop.

V2-Moved to table a few hours into day 4. Male late 40's or early 50's wearing hoodie/sunglasses and has played maybe 1 hand in two hours? He's not even opening in position when folded to. Very tight image.

V1 opens in MP to 25,000
Hero calls in cutoff with K 8
V2 calls on the button
SB & BB complete

Flop (137,000): K Jx 8

Checks to hero who bets 70K.
V2 thinks for a few seconds and over-shoves all-in.
Folds back to hero....

Are you calling or folding and why?

Also, curious to hear people's thoughts on my flop sizing. I think I made a mistake here...

FWIW...I would have to size up pretty big pre to have fold equity if I 3-bet (Hachem was defending wide) so I prefer to just call in position.

As always, I appreciate the discussion.

Personally, I'm not a fan of calling K8s here. It is a small ball hand and the dynamics you describe make not having the straight potential an issue.

As played, you block the sh*t out of his value range here. AK/KJ/JJ, maybe AA QQ & 88? Wouldn't you expect him to raise pf with AA/KK/QQ? so, maybe you are looking at AK, KJ, JJ, possibly 88 and at least some non-zero amount of bluffs. His A-X diamond range is also to be considered but he can profitable call IP and really doesn't mind others tagging along if he is drawing.

If you fold, you still have a healthy 36 bigs left. I think in any other MTT except the ME I talk myself into a call as folding to AK is a disaster. If you think he rises JJ pf, then this is a call. OMC do tend to play both AK and JJ somewhat passively. The good news, you are still live against everything but KK here(yeah 8-8 can happen but let's not go overboard). Since you now call ~300K to win over a million, I think this is a tank call.

Literally every hand you post has preflop mistakes (egregious ones), and what's hilarious is you literally always assume in your posts that what you do pre is OK

Muck pre.

Given villain 2's image, muck.

1 hand in two hours? Yeah, he could have flatted aces, but I think he made set of jacks.

And 1/2 pot is never a bad flop sized bet. Can argue larger or smaller, but 1/2 is fine.

OMC shoves 2x pot into the chipleader and you can't fold the two pair cuz of blockers? Looool.

K8s obviously a fold pre for me in most lineups but table dynamics were unique. 3/9 players were clearly playing for pay jumps & playing very tight/face up. Plus, the chip leader was opening extremely wide & then playing very passive post. I am not going to go down with the ship defending this cold call but I am opening up my cold calling range in late position with the right table dynamics.

I don’t think this player type is going to not play a hand for 2 hours & then blast off 5-ways with just top pair, top kicker.

I think the question is whether V is more likely to over shove for value/protection or with big combo draws?


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Hardee’s biscuits > EggsMcBluffin


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Shouldn’t we size up closer to pot with 4 V’s behind us? Giving everyone too good of a price, especially with implied odds.

OR i also like sizing down to a micro bet to induce a raise.

Standard 1/2 pot sizing seems bad here


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I never mentioned blockers & have not yet revealed the results...

But can you spoil OMC for me?


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OMC stands for Old Man Coffee. Means old tight nits.

awful hand to call but an ideal hand to light 3bet
post flop is just tragic but don't compound the mistake by calling against an uncapped OMC
side note: late 40s early 50s is way too young to be considered OMC but if he hasn't played a hand in two hours, then maybe this guy has aged badly

Blinds are both defending with expected %'s. -- Does this mean the blinds called preflop too? If so, why didn't you include their stack sizes?

So v2 shoves into three checks and your bet?

Old silver, in my book you can achieve OMC status regardless of actual age, not playing a single hand in two hours after money bubble in main gets you nominated into the club.

Mario>Louigi

I think this is a tough spot because you are now getting good odds against a reasonable range. But that's if we include all flush draws/combo draws. How likely is this OMC going to be shoving Td9d on the flop? Even QTs might be shoving, but would he call and see a turn or jam with the whole field behind him? I also think KJ is a possibility while J8 is pretty unlikely (88 is a strong possibility). I think we can rule out KK/JJ. You are basically crushed unless this guy has a draw, in which case you are marginally ahead.

I think you aren't really deep enough to play this hand and if you are going to play it, you have to feel that these players are very predictable. 3 bet or fold is better than calling preflop.

Sucky spot, but I think in the main event you can find a fold here.

Agree with above--at best you're flipping against a massive draw. I mean I've seen players freak out with AK or AA here but you'd have to be playing an Emmet- level drooler.

I'd bet more on flop btw

pre is laughably terrible. hope you didnt sell at any markup.

This is LOL funny




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Nice hand. Well played.


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I think it is very specifically KJ or 88 or one of 3 combo draws (AQdd, AJdd & A10dd). What is he more likely to over bet shove with? A made hand or big draw?

This player type is clearly 3 betting KK and I think JJ especially with a cold call behind.

But we are either slightly ahead or crushed.


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+1 flop sizing was a mistake. This bet accomplished nothing. Need to size up to near pot 5-ways.

Thoughts on a micro bet to induce a raise as another line here?




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Only charged my Mom 3.50

What is your cold calling range here? Again, V is opening ~40-50% of hands and playing extremely passively post flop.


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[QUOTE=ImaLouigi;55365073]I never mentioned blockers & have not yet revealed the results...

/QUOTE]

"Lol blockers" was a preemptive strike on your rational when your called it off with this hand.

A lot of good points made by other posters. Your question basically boils down to does a true nit play AA or QJdd or 910dd (or Combo A high combo draw) as described?

i think a true nit only puts all his chips in the pot when they have a made nut hand. On this flop, kk and jj are the only two hands I would expect him to turn over as played. I would never expect a true nit to show up with oefds here. How often does a nit spazz shove those hands when he has position?

As I have never seen a true nit limp AA on the button in a multiway raised pot, I don't expect AA either.

I do expect the results to include a j on the turn or runner runner 22.....

3b pre vs described player but flat is ok as described. Pre-solves prove suited Kx were underrated for the longest.

Post flop? You’re on your own.

I think you are right that a nit's over shove range is almost only made hands, especially in the Main Event (probably 100%). We can exploit this since the V is not balanced and doing this with his combo draws and fold...which the hero did.

I still thought it was an interesting spot to discuss.

It's easy for everyone to say fold pre from afar but there are table dynamics that can make having a wider flatting range profitable. This table specifically was one of those rare circumstances.

But, yes, I obviously agree that in most circumstances fold pre or 3-bet. I'm not as stupid as I look!

K9s+