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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 04-29-2021, 06:10 PM   #1
Li0nheart
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Where did I play this wrong?

Pacific Poker - 700/1400 Ante 175 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3 : http://www.holdemmanager.com

UTG: 51,994 (37.1 bb)
Hero (UTG+1): 47,964 (34.3 bb)
MP: 53,154 (38 bb)
MP+1: 42,153 (30.1 bb)
MP+2: 73,476 (52.5 bb)
CO: 36,587 (26.1 bb)
BTN: 85,284 (60.9 bb)
SB: 34,263 (24.5 bb)
BB: 85,099 (60.8 bb)

9 players post ante of 175, SB posts 700, BB posts 1,400

Pre Flop: (pot: 3,675) Hero has Th Tc
fold, Hero raises to 3,220, 5 folds, SB calls 2,520, fold

Flop: (9,415, 2 players) 4h 8d Qd
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (9,415, 2 players) 8c
SB checks, Hero bets 2,353, SB raises to 8,235, Hero calls 5,882

River: (25,885, 2 players) 9h
SB bets 22,633 and is all-in,

Hero?

Not sure how much ICM should have factors into it, roughly 95 players were left, 72 made the money, i had a mid stack going into the hand
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Old 04-29-2021, 06:46 PM   #2
Bubblebust
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

I would usually c-bet that flop versus SB. You should have range advantage on that flop, and can use protection as lots of turn cards make life tough.

As played, V should not have that many 8s in his range, and if you peg V as aggressive he might be x/r with diamond draw or straight draw (although you heavily block most straight draws). Once, you call turn, you are putting V on draw or move. JT got there, but as said, you block that heavily. Given this logic, I guess you sigh call.
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Old 04-29-2021, 07:47 PM   #3
oldsilver
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

What’s the buy in OP?

Any reads on SB and his pre flatting range?

I don’t have an SB flat range against a single RFI but generally expect AQ KQ QJs type hands plus mid pp when others do it - v player dependent tho

I think a mixed strat is fine, sometimes 1/3 cbet sometimes check

On turn, we can expect V to have such a high cr frequency that I’m fine with a turn check back, then calling off any small stab otr.

Just one of those hands where I want to play a small pot with decent sdv against an unknown range approaching bubble.

As played fold to cr and fold now.

Last edited by oldsilver; 04-29-2021 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 04-29-2021, 11:33 PM   #4
poskid
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Flop - C-Bet 1/3 pot 5/6, check 1/6.

AP you can just fold to the turn x/r there are only 4 good rivers and everything else sucks when he shoves.

River - we shouldn't be here. Fold
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Old 04-30-2021, 12:58 AM   #5
lolposting2016
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Easy turn check betting looks like a blunder, you don’t get to Cbet a bunch vs the sb call range (which is a lot stronger than the bb peek range)
you can mix in some bets w this hand at a low frequency on the flop but you’ll done fine just pure check.
Anyways the turn bet on the 8 idk if that ty makes it in there is just check turn and go for one street otr
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Old 04-30-2021, 12:59 AM   #6
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by poskid View Post
Flop - C-Bet 1/3 pot 5/6, check 1/6.

AP you can just fold to the turn x/r there are only 4 good rivers and everything else sucks when he shoves.

River - we shouldn't be here. Fold
No
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Old 04-30-2021, 03:21 PM   #7
2pairsof2s
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
No
No to Which part? If I open a hand from early position and am called only out of the blinds, I will C-bet most flops. And as played I too will be folding to the C/R on the turn (or on the river if I were to misclick or something and call the C/R by mistake.)
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:23 PM   #8
lolposting2016
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pairsof2s View Post
No to Which part? If I open a hand from early position and am called only out of the blinds, I will C-bet most flops. And as played I too will be folding to the C/R on the turn (or on the river if I were to misclick or something and call the C/R by mistake.)
Vs the bb the 1/3 size otf gets used for value/protection
Vs the sb range again which is a lot stronger and has plenty enough a qx and 8x here you canít just close your eyes and bet 1/3 every time
The 5/6 thing ott he said is just plainly wrong and bad
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:27 PM   #9
Li0nheart
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubblebust View Post
I would usually c-bet that flop versus SB. You should have range advantage on that flop, and can use protection as lots of turn cards make life tough.

As played, V should not have that many 8s in his range, and if you peg V as aggressive he might be x/r with diamond draw or straight draw (although you heavily block most straight draws). Once, you call turn, you are putting V on draw or move. JT got there, but as said, you block that heavily. Given this logic, I guess you sigh call.
Hey dude, thanks for the opinion. Just a quick question, do we have a range advantage here? I checked specifically because I thought we didn't have that big a range advantage and, running it through equilab, we only have 52% (that being said flatting ranges from the SB are variable af so i understand that it can be quite variable), but it does feel as though the sb can have quite a few Qs in his range. Also correct me if im wrong but theres only really one hand that needs a lot of protection and thats KJ, everything else has either a better hand, or only 1 over card?

Sadly didnt have any significant stats on the guy, but i did call, and he turned over KK which..... hurts haha
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:31 PM   #10
Li0nheart
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsilver View Post
Whatís the buy in OP?

Any reads on SB and his pre flatting range?

I donít have an SB flat range against a single RFI but generally expect AQ KQ QJs type hands plus mid pp when others do it - v player dependent tho

I think a mixed strat is fine, sometimes 1/3 cbet sometimes check

On turn, we can expect V to have such a high cr frequency that Iím fine with a turn check back, then calling off any small stab otr.

Just one of those hands where I want to play a small pot with decent sdv against an unknown range approaching bubble.

As played fold to cr and fold now.
Buyin $22, no notes on him (new pc so all my info had gone).

Is this because V has a bunch of 8's? Cos im not sure why he'd have many turn check raises, am i missing smth?

Thanks for the opinion, I called cos i got hella blockers/unblockers and he had KK -_-
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Old 04-30-2021, 05:35 PM   #11
Li0nheart
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
Easy turn check betting looks like a blunder, you donít get to Cbet a bunch vs the sb call range (which is a lot stronger than the bb peek range)
you can mix in some bets w this hand at a low frequency on the flop but youíll done fine just pure check.
Anyways the turn bet on the 8 idk if that ty makes it in there is just check turn and go for one street otr
Hi, thanks for the opinion. Can I ask why the 8 betting is a blunder? Just run the numbers on Equilab and the equities dont really change that much, which makes sense because I dont think either of us have many 8's in our range, so whats wrong with it?
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Old 05-01-2021, 11:28 PM   #12
Bubblebust
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Li0nheart View Post
Hey dude, thanks for the opinion. Just a quick question, do we have a range advantage here? I checked specifically because I thought we didn't have that big a range advantage and, running it through equilab, we only have 52% (that being said flatting ranges from the SB are variable af so i understand that it can be quite variable), but it does feel as though the sb can have quite a few Qs in his range. Also correct me if im wrong but theres only really one hand that needs a lot of protection and thats KJ, everything else has either a better hand, or only 1 over card?

Sadly didnt have any significant stats on the guy, but i did call, and he turned over KK which..... hurts haha
SB likely has a lot of Qs, but you have all the big ones too. SB almost certainly has a lot less AA/KK than you, so that's why I said you have range advantage ... of course, he did end up flatting KK here. As I said once you call the turn x/r, you might as well call river, since there's no way you should be calling unless you put a lot of draws in his range (I check turn, and fold after the x/r).
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Old 05-03-2021, 07:34 PM   #13
lolposting2016
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

Tbh I don’t know the mechanic exactly on the 8x I haven’t ran this exact scenario. But when I used to use the dto app I practiced this lp vs small blind and was surprised that there’s just not a lot of betting volume from the ip player with marginal hands like this you end up checking a lot till the river
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Old 05-04-2021, 10:05 AM   #14
PhatPots
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

I think you have to give SB credit here. Unless you know something about them, how often would a player c/r with air here and follow it through on the river? I think best case scenario you are looking at JTs, T9s, or 67s, 65s (if SB is capable). Having a 8 is perfectly with in the SB range.

I don't think you did anything wrong here. I would bet this flop some % of the time but not always with your holding (maybe a PP?). I guess the problem is on the turn, what do you get called with that you are beating? But OTH, you don't want to give them a free chance to hit something.
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:07 AM   #15
Mr Rick
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Re: Where did I play this wrong?

The turn c/r is more likely value than a bluff. Though I think SB's line is unusual either way.

When you check the flop your range is likely reduced to misses and PP's (because we want to charge flush draws and gutters when we have a Q or overpair).

At this point you win when you bet the turn when SB has nothing and has given up. If I bet the turn it is always going to be bet/fold. If I'm not going to fold to a c/r then I'd rather a turn check which sets up a good spot to bluff catch on the river.

As played I don't hate the turn bet because SB looks like he may very well fold to it (and may have one or two overs to our TT). Or SB may call with hands like 99/55-77/22-33.
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