Hello guys,

I just did some calculations on ICMIZER and saw that after a 4x UTG and a shove MP for 30BB, we are to fold AKo and call AKs when speaking after with no ICM considered (still far from the money). So I was wondering when do you guys fold AK pre ?

Depends really...

i had a hand a couple month ago where i should of folded it.

it was a big tourney i had like 40,000 forget what blinds were like 400-800 800bb anti

i open for 2500

a guy who was a pro, but was in the middle of telling the guy next to him his lifestory. so he 3 bets me to 6,000, 7,000 or whatever then another pro instantly shoves allin.

so i should of known that a)the guy talking wasn't making moves vs me a tightish player while he is in the middle of telling this guy his lifestory and isn't playing close attention

b) that the other pro wasn't shoving with crap hands vs me a tightish player b a guy who is telling this guy his lifestory and obvious not 3 betting with crap.

anyway, i called talking guy had queens, shover had a-k and the ak lost, like 3-4th my chips

Pretty much never.

Maybe you should start doing it from times to times. See OP.

No one cares about your calculations

That's such a wild opened question that really depends on player population, our position, action ahead, stack depths, etc. Much easier to assess a specific, detailed situation to see where we might consider folding AK than try to conjure up scenarios.

The original OP is probably close and honestly depends on other stacks at the table, likely EP and MP range, etc. I'd also like to know our position as well as that will almost certainly make a difference as to whether calling vs. jamming makes more sense.

As jpgiro said, your question is a little too broad for a useful response. I certainly don't want to bother listing any of the scenario's that come to mind where folding AK might be a smart move. But IMO this answer is incorrect.

No **** it's incorrect

Well if you know it's bad advice why post it? There is a whole section here, Poker Beats, Brags, and Variance, that is dedicated to trolling. Go post there if you want to troll.

Idiot

Useless thread. If most of you fish never folded AK youd be alot better off. Especially when the other option is folding and using poker strategy.

ICMIzer doesn't take into account future ev tho.. would never fold AKo in that situation

Who raises 4x utg anyway

A complete donk with 50 PFR who went all in 2 hands before with 8-5o 30BB on a 9 10 J.

MP was a very good reg with 98 competency on sharkscope and 58K wins on 3k games (he did not one time).

My position is BB.

ICMIZer says, if consider the donkness of UTG it is a call, if we play GTO it is fold with AKo. AKs is a call anyway.

So I understand AK is very different from QQ as QQ is a better call than AK. If we are to shove AK and QQ are approximately the same, or AK is slightly better as we block one A and one K. Is that correct ?

I will probably get ripped for this but I find it hard to fold ak pre if <30bbs. I think between 10-30 bbs, it’s almost never wrong to get it in pre if the hand meets certain specs:

1) you aren’t being 3 bet or 4bet by an ultra nit (ex: old man) etc
2)there are no real icm considerations- if you are far from money I think it’s easier to just get it in. I still think it’s fine to get it in close to a bubble if you wanna play a higher variance style.

Meh with ak, the only hands you do poorly against are aa and kk. Sure you are flipping against all pairs.... you crush aq/aj which are standard shove hands by short stacks. Flips are unavoidable in tournies so you have to get it in sooner or later imo. I know this is super basic guidelines but just try to avoid spots where your opponents range is going to be JJ+ ak+ in the live scene. If a player doesn’t 3bet or 4bet ever and suddenly does during late game stages of close to bubble, you can prolly fold ak easily.

There are times to fold it, but they almost never involve a donk with 50 PFT 4x'ing it, that's for sure.