Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
What is our optimal line? ( mini fast friday) What is our optimal line? ( mini fast friday)

10-13-2017 , 06:41 PM
Hello! IŽd like some input on this spot. I share my thoughts on the hand under the hh.

PokerStars Hand #176870358454: Zoom Tournament #2061079329, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (80/160) - 2017/10/13 21:06:58 CET [2017/10/13 15:06:58 ET]
Table '2061079329 238' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Caz_Carneiro (12722 in chips)
Seat 2: frangs88 (13915 in chips)
Seat 3: herrfresch (14275 in chips)
Seat 4: finniver (45057 in chips)
Seat 5: Jimmy2009 (8793 in chips)
Seat 6: Bot35 (6846 in chips)
Seat 7: ltviva (6273 in chips)
Seat 8: l1poTa (8850 in chips)
Seat 9: hero (5407 in chips)
Caz_Carneiro: posts the ante 16
frangs88: posts the ante 16
herrfresch: posts the ante 16
finniver: posts the ante 16
Jimmy2009: posts the ante 16
Bot35: posts the ante 16
ltviva: posts the ante 16
l1poTa: posts the ante 16
hero: posts the ante 16
frangs88: posts small blind 80
herrfresch: posts big blind 160
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [Ac Qs]
finniver: folds
Jimmy2009: folds
Bot35: raises 192 to 352
ltviva: folds
l1poTa: folds
hero: calls 352
Caz_Carneiro: folds
frangs88: folds
herrfresch: folds
*** FLOP *** [9c Ah Kc]
Bot35: bets 522
hero: calls 522
*** TURN *** [9c Ah Kc] [Jc]
Bot35: bets 1286
hero: raises 3231 to 4517 and is all-in
Bot35: calls 3231
*** RIVER *** [9c Ah Kc Jc] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Bot35: shows [9h 9s] (three of a kind, Nines)
hero: shows [Ac Qs] (a pair of Aces)
Bot35 collected 11166 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 11166 | Rake 0
Board [9c Ah Kc Jc 4d]
Seat 1: Caz_Carneiro (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: frangs88 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: herrfresch (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: finniver folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Jimmy2009 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Bot35 showed [9h 9s] and won (11166) with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 7: ltviva folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: l1poTa folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: hero showed [Ac Qs] and lost with a pair of Aces

I think calling preflop and on the flop is standard. It's at the turn things become real unclear.

We pic up tons of equity (nut flush draw, gutshot to the nuts) to go against better hands.

When villian bets 8bb on turn I don't know if we should be calling or jamming. We have 28bb left, calling turn leaves us with only 20bb on the river . A risk that comes to mind by calling,is that villian might jam many of his bluffs and we have a hard time calling if we brick the river.

The merit to shoveing is that we are always realizing equity when called. Problem is that we are sort of turning our hand with showdown value into a bluff. He eighter has a better hand then us which often end up calling, and he's most likely folding all worse hands.

Id love some directions from more experienced players on how to play this turn.
What is our optimal line? ( mini fast friday) Quote
10-13-2017 , 10:54 PM
You can't fold the turn bet with top pair and nut flush draw as well as a gutshot straight draw. You have too many outs.

But, on the turn you lose to AA, KK, AK, AJ, A9, A4, Q10, 99, JJ, KJ, K9, 44, K4 (unlikely), J4 (unlikely), and any two clubs -- so that's a lot of ways to lose.

A shove on the turn folds out only bluffs and maybe Kc-x.

A call-fold if you whiff the river and villain shoves is fine. Villain may not shove with three clubs on board, thinking that your turn call could be a made flush, so there is a good chance that if you just call the turn the river will go check-check and you have good enough showdown value that a call on the turn is probably good here.
What is our optimal line? ( mini fast friday) Quote
10-14-2017 , 07:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGChapman
You can't fold the turn bet with top pair and nut flush draw as well as a gutshot straight draw. You have too many outs.

But, on the turn you lose to AA, KK, AK, AJ, A9, A4, Q10, 99, JJ, KJ, K9, 44, K4 (unlikely), J4 (unlikely), and any two clubs -- so that's a lot of ways to lose.

A shove on the turn folds out only bluffs and maybe Kc-x.

A call-fold if you whiff the river and villain shoves is fine. Villain may not shove with three clubs on board, thinking that your turn call could be a made flush, so there is a good chance that if you just call the turn the river will go check-check and you have good enough showdown value that a call on the turn is probably good here.


Thanks, that helps. Another question is, if we call turn and brick river and gets checked to.. can we fold out some of the hands listed above by shoveing? Or do we always take our bad showdown value? We block some nutted hands that we can quite credibly rep. Villian might get to good of a price though
What is our optimal line? ( mini fast friday) Quote
10-14-2017 , 11:03 AM
Call turn
decide river
What is our optimal line? ( mini fast friday) Quote
10-21-2017 , 12:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moray
if we call turn and brick river and gets checked to.. can we fold out some of the hands listed above by shoveing?
Yes, some of them but we have other hands to do that with. The SDV will be good often enough that this isn't really the best hand to do it with.
What is our optimal line? ( mini fast friday) Quote

      
m