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WCOOP 9 PKO 8h WCOOP 9 PKO 8h

09-20-2020 , 10:54 AM
What do you think about this hand? In my opinion he can represent two pairs/set on the flop. Should i fold on turn?
PokerStars, $100 + $9 - Hold'em No Limit - 125/250 (30 ante) - 8 players
Replay this hand on CardsChat

ricky128815 (UTG): 54,264 (217 bb)
suuuuucz (UTG+1): 44,154 (177 bb)
felipe_anps (MP): 51,602 (206 bb)
Endymion77 (MP+1): 45,706 (183 bb)
Mr.Acar (CO): 53,615 (214 bb)
CR-1923 (BU): 49,415 (198 bb)
leitalopez (SB): 50,100 (200 bb)
doungara (BB): 50,924 (204 bb)

Pre-Flop: (615) Hero (suuuuucz) is UTG+1 with Q Q
1 fold, suuuuucz (UTG+1) raises to 750, felipe_anps (MP) calls 750, 4 players fold, doungara (BB) calls 500

Flop: (2,615) 8 6 T (3 players)
doungara (BB) checks, suuuuucz (UTG+1) bets 1,500, felipe_anps (MP) calls 1,500, doungara (BB) raises to 7,000, suuuuucz (UTG+1) calls 5,500, felipe_anps (MP) folds

Turn: (18,115) 4 (2 players)
doungara (BB) bets 10,000, suuuuucz (UTG+1) calls 10,000

River: (38,115) J (2 players)
doungara (BB) bets 33,144 (all-in), suuuuucz (UTG+1) folds

Total pot: 38,115
doungara (BB) wins 38,115
WCOOP 9 PKO 8h Quote
09-21-2020 , 11:34 AM
It’s kind of a sick spot with the post flop strength V is showing. I think you’re face up as an over pair. V can expect a random Player to fold the over pair here. V had a bit advantage at every point in the hand except preflop. I think you’ve got to lay it down OTT. If V fired away with 99 or AK then well played.
WCOOP 9 PKO 8h Quote
09-22-2020 , 12:29 PM
If you are not calling the river shove (V's only logical bet given the river SPR) then fold turn with no Qh. Vs hand isn't face-up as ours is but his betting plan sure is. c/r flop, lead turn >50% pot, shove all rivers. BB definitely has a range advantage on both flop and turn (as stated in the post above).
WCOOP 9 PKO 8h Quote
09-23-2020 , 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachman42
If you are not calling the river shove (V's only logical bet given the river SPR) then fold turn with no Qh. Vs hand isn't face-up as ours is but his betting plan sure is. c/r flop, lead turn >50% pot, shove all rivers. BB definitely has a range advantage on both flop and turn (as stated in the post above).
So, we are never supposed to call turn fold river? I think that line is (as hero) vastly underused. Yes, it is expensive. But, if we never use it, then Villain can bluff way wider on turn. He can shut down all of his bluffs on river. He can value bet us way thinner, since our range is call downs and missed draws.

I think the line you are suggesting is one that the population overuses, ie using the turn as an inflection point for the rest of the hand. I know I use it myself too often.
WCOOP 9 PKO 8h Quote
09-23-2020 , 11:55 AM
I understand your point here but I do believe the critical aspect is the SPR AFTER Vs turn bet. It is almost exactly 1 for V. Unless V is a complete drooler, he/she will only push or check and since V acts first, I'd expect the push the vast majority of the time. It is very logical line and the most difficult to defend.

We have the option of folding OTT, folding OTR, or calling if V does shove. There are only 2 cards we want to see and 1 (Qh) isn't as thrilling as the other. We will not improve materially from where we are OTT. Thus, I'm folding the turn bet if I'm not willing to insta-call the river shove.
WCOOP 9 PKO 8h Quote
09-23-2020 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachman42
I understand your point here but I do believe the critical aspect is the SPR AFTER Vs turn bet. It is almost exactly 1 for V. Unless V is a complete drooler, he/she will only push or check and since V acts first, I'd expect the push the vast majority of the time. It is very logical line and the most difficult to defend.

We have the option of folding OTT, folding OTR, or calling if V does shove. There are only 2 cards we want to see and 1 (Qh) isn't as thrilling as the other. We will not improve materially from where we are OTT. Thus, I'm folding the turn bet if I'm not willing to insta-call the river shove.
Sure. I am not saying that this exact hand shouldn't use the turn as inflection point. BTW, I think a river 4 makes this a snap call too, since we counterfeit 2P...
WCOOP 9 PKO 8h Quote

      
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