Posted this couple weeks ago in the quick checkup, bumped it, still haven't received any responses...so I made a thread cause I am still getting pwned in these spots and would like it to stop. If I need to just fold these hands someone please tell me!

I am in the money in two different $55 25k gtds, 9 player tables.

Pocket 8s. I have ~120k, blinds 4k/8k (I have 15BBs) Shove? I did....Should I be raising small or folding instead though?

A5s. I have ~34k, blinds 1.5k/3k. Shove? I did. Same question (although I know this is either a fold or shove, raise not even a consideration).

Thanks!!

Jennifear is your friend for shove ranges. Google it. In general you can shove slightly wider than Nash since people don't call you off as much as they should.

As for which ranges you should push vs. raise.

This are my general rules of thumb for opening

<10bb - always shove
10-15bb - generally shove, but sometimes open raise close to min
15-20 - standard raise, but sometimes shove
>20bb - always raise

You haven't mentioned what position you're in, which of course makes a very big difference. But I'm guessing both are +EV shoves from any position, the only question is whether there's a line that makes more $. I don't think so, but there are tourneys where r/f'ing 88 from utg might be better and if your opponents call too much you might be better off openfolding A5s from utg.

Read the title man.....

So these are both reasonable shoves, one might say? Looking for a bit more followup on this if anyone has something to offer! Thanks!

They're both borderline shoves. But the difference between them is your stack size gives you another option in hand 1. What I don't like about shoving 15bb there is that it turns your cards over because you're shoving a very specific range in that spot - ie, you're not likely shoving QQ-AA or small pairs, so your hand looks like AJs+ and middle pairs. So what you could do in that spot is play it the same way you would play AA and raise say 2.5x to look strong.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Curious to know which spots are good to raise with 10-15bbs instead of shove.

Not many. May raise small with AA or KK to induce. Somewhat table and image dependent.

So from yalls responses (thank you, btw), I have gathered that it is just a tough spot when you are holding a hand that is the bottom of your typical opening UTG range and have this amount of BBs......

And with closer to 15bbs, a small raise can be better as to not give away the range of your hand by shoving.....


What about folding a hand like A5s with 12BBs and allowing the blinds to hit you? I have watched some of the players with the best MTT results on WPN lately deep in tournaments where they allow their stacks to go slightly below 10BBs as the blinds hit them, then they just wait for a better hand, or even just a similar hand, to shove 9BBs from a later, more comfortable position rather than shoving, say, a 12bb stack with A5s UTG.....

This seems to be such a crucial aspect of tournament play....I am surprised by some of the responses, as my typical experience is getting called off by superior hands when this situation arises where I shove these bottom of my opening range hands.

Is perhaps the best answer that I should be adjusting my shoving range to be slightly tighter with <15bbs than what my opening range would be with a huge stack...? Because, ya know, it's my last move I can make with my chips as opposed to all the other options available with a real stack?

I feel like everyone gets it wrong suggesting you should take more risks with bigger stacks and play tighter with shorter stacks, I advise quite the opposite...If you have a big stack you should protect it, if you are short stacked you should take greater risks.

As for your question of shoving, I would apply the above logic and take the risks personally, but there is no shame being a bit on the caution side.