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Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat

06-24-2020 , 09:58 AM
ACR - $27.5 Satellite - Holdem - 5 players

CO: 38.9 BB
BTN: 5 BB
SB: 0.06 BB
Hero (BB): 84.15 BB
UTG: 58.5 BB

4 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts ante 0.06 BB and is all-in, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.46 BB) Hero has Kc 8s
UTG raises to 2.84 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.84 BB

Flop : (6.14 BB, 3 players) 9s Kh 3h
Hero checks, UTG bets 3.57 BB, Hero raises to 7.14 BB, UTG calls 3.57 BB

Turn : (20.42 BB, 3 players) 6s
Hero bets 10.21 BB, UTG calls 10.21 BB

River : (40.84 BB, 3 players) 4c
Hero checks, UTG bets 38.21 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 38.21 BB

SB shows 3s Td (One Pair, Threes)

Main Pot [0.28 BB]: (Pre 29%, Flop 20%, Turn 12%)

Hero shows Kc 8s (One Pair, Kings)

Main Pot [0.28 BB]: (Pre 19%, Flop 11%, Turn 7%)
Side Pot [116.97 BB]: (Pre 25%, Flop 12%, Turn 7%)
Side Pot [0 BB]: (Pre 25%, Flop 12%, Turn 7%)

UTG shows As Kd (One Pair, Kings)

Main Pot [0.28 BB]: (Pre 52%, Flop 68%, Turn 81%)
Side Pot [116.97 BB]: (Pre 75%, Flop 88%, Turn 93%)
Side Pot [0 BB]: (Pre 75%, Flop 88%, Turn 93%)

UTG wins 117.25 BB

Thoughts on this hand? I cold have folded pre, but we are 5 handed so I don't mind defending K high here. V had made some speculative pre flop calls with hands in the past like raising KT off utg and calling a 22 bb jam. I was also surprised V did not 3 bet on flop to protect. I could be check raising with some draws in the bb. By the river, all draws missed so if V was calling with draws, I have a decent bluff catcher. This deep, maybe better to just check call two streets and fold river?
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-24-2020 , 11:08 AM
Are there 5 players left in this satellite? If so, this looks like an absolute ICM disaster with the top stack against #2 stack who has 70% of your stack.

Even if not, I am not thrilled to play three streets of action with your hand with both players having 55+ BBs. I would certainly advocate check calling the flop. I might not even call the turn here, depending on V.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-24-2020 , 12:18 PM
Oh no sorry if that wasn’t clear, this was in the middling stage of the satellite. A couple levels left for rebuys. Yes probably should have just gone with the more passive route.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-24-2020 , 12:25 PM
Don't play sats. Fold before your register.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-24-2020 , 12:34 PM
Just call down. I don't like the flop raise, particularly in a satellite. This isn't a good board to raise on, because you probably 3-bet AA/KK/AK, and he has more KQ/KJ/JT. Just call down, as he may bluff. If you called down, you might still have a decision of the river. You way overplayed this. River might be a fold as played, but he could have a busted draw.

You could even fold pre in satellite, depending on the satellite situation.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-24-2020 , 05:47 PM
You don’t get to x/r weak kx (or really any hands) vs utg on k93 /thread
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-24-2020 , 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
You don’t get to x/r weak kx (or really any hands) vs utg on k93 /thread
It's UTG 5-handed, and there might be some situations to x/r a set, draw, or bluff, but I can't see how it could ever be good with a weak k. This hand shows why not. You don't want to stack off against AK or KQ/AA/KK. Also, you don't want to build the pot as much in a satellite.

Last edited by deuceblocker; 06-24-2020 at 06:36 PM.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-24-2020 , 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker
It's UTG 5-handed, and there might be some situations to x/r a set, draw, or bluff, but I can't see how it could ever be good with a weak k. This hand shows why not. You don't want to stack off against AK or KQ/AA/KK. Also, you don't want to build the pot as much in a satellite.
If you run a sim for these spots you are supposed to be slow playing everything and just letting villain blast off which he should be doing (correctly so)
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-25-2020 , 06:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
If you run a sim for these spots you are supposed to be slow playing everything and just letting villain blast off which he should be doing (correctly so)
You are right. I am skeptical when people say you can't do something because that is what the solver says. However, in this case it doesn't make sense to x/r with anything. The play is just horrible because the x/r is with a weak K and it is a satellite. Kind of interesting hand to post, because it is so bad.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-25-2020 , 09:53 AM
Flop raise is terrible. If you assume the villain cbets better hands/bluffs and checks behind with pairs worse then top pair, you're essentially raising and folding out his bluffs and keeping in his stronger hands.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-25-2020 , 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deuceblocker
You are right. I am skeptical when people say you can't do something because that is what the solver says. However, in this case it doesn't make sense to x/r with anything. The play is just horrible because the x/r is with a weak K and it is a satellite. Kind of interesting hand to post, because it is so bad.
The fact that we’re in a satellite means next to nothing here
And you can do whatever you want at the poker table just means you are going to lose ev relative to the solvers strategy because the solver is smarter and any feeble human mind and can compute the highest ev/least exploitable strategy. So good players in 2020 are doing their best job to mimick these strategies as effectively as they can. Why do you think there are stories about Linus just being buried in pio for like 18 hours a day?
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-25-2020 , 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
The fact that we’re in a satellite means next to nothing here
And you can do whatever you want at the poker table just means you are going to lose ev relative to the solvers strategy because the solver is smarter and any feeble human mind and can compute the highest ev/least exploitable strategy. So good players in 2020 are doing their best job to mimick these strategies as effectively as they can. Why do you think there are stories about Linus just being buried in pio for like 18 hours a day?
The flop x/r is just horrible and you don't need a solver to figure that out.

You are playing big stack versus big stack. The fact that it is a satellite is very relevant. We don't know the satellite situation, but even if it is fairly early, you should be less inclined to gamble in a satellite.

I agree with no x/r range here. However, you are playing people not programs, and sometimes making a play you aren't supposed to make with anything is confusing and effective.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-26-2020 , 04:53 AM
I fold pre against 2.84x. Flop I just xc.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote
06-26-2020 , 07:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetwalkincheeta
I fold pre against 2.84x. Flop I just xc.
Pre seems like a really easy fold to the 2.84, particularly against another big stack in a satellite. Stay out of trouble.

Also, if it was not his normal sizing, it might be a clue that he has a top 10% hand and TPNK might not be good.
Trouble w/ Top Pair on Draw Heavy Board - 0 Sat Quote

      
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