Hey I'm new to this site and forum but might want to keep a bit active on this and crush the live scene.

So this is the 1st hand after the dinner break and I get moved to a brand new table.
Blinds 1k 2k with a 2k bb ante

My stack size is 170k.

I am in MP+1 after a UTG open to 2.5x. I have Ako. I 3bet 3x. The button flats. BB calls. And the original UTG raiser tank flats.

Pot is 60kish

The flop is K5Jcc
BB checks,
UTG checks,
I bet 55k, (I want the flatters to pay for their flush draw)
BTN and BB fold
UTG calls.

Turn is 8
UTG check calls my bet of 65k

River is a 2, UTG checks again.
I tank shove my remaining less then pot size bet and he calls.

He turns over KJs and I'm just. We were near exact for chips. And he went on the come 4th.

Did I play this wrong and is my bet sizings correct?

Thanks.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

I will preface this by saying I don't typically play in high end events (although I have played and bombed twice in the WSOP main).

Pre flop I have no issue with your strategy. Personally though, I often just call vs UTG opens with AK.

Your flop bet puts you in an awkward spot. It should succeed in getting most draws to fold. Maybe only double draws would still call. But otherwise, who is calling? KQs/AJ maybe but then for only that one bet. It looks like you are trying to get it all in. I think you are actually going to get people to play fairly perfectly against you.

On the turn you are betting over half your stack. This is basically pot committing. And because it is a little more than a third of the pot it, prices in some double draws.

If we're going to bet 55k on the flop I would just be shoving my remaining 100k on the turn (into a 170k pot). I'm not saying this is wrong (I have done this on occasion). I just don't see any other option. Unless you think if you check back the turn villain might bluff all in on the river... Which is fine but won't change the outcome of this hand anyway as villain is likely to shove river and because you under-repped your hand, its a call.

My line on this hand would probably be to bet about 30k on the flop. And if I bet the turn (which I would do more than half the time), I would make it about 50k. If I checked back the turn, I would call on the river and if I bet the turn I would most likely check back the river. You are likely to get called only by better at that point. The worst hand you should have is AK.

Absolute perfect response.

On my drive home that's how I said it to myself,
I was exactly trying to go all in on river,

What is he calling turn bet with after I nearly pot size on the flop?

I didn't really think to much in that spot I was more inclined for him to just call so I could jam the river so thanks for your reply. Means a lot!

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Welcome! Please post more (super) HS hands.

First of all which flop cards were clubs matters a ton for blockers. Kc on the board really cuts down on possible FDs you're trying to protect against. What was the flop exactly?

Also who's the effective stack? You, the opener, or BTN?

Sorry I'm new to posting so excuse this.

I had the Ace of clubs aswell.
The flop is KJ5

So I'm blocking FLUSH draws which makes me more stupid to try go all in.

I was in MP and he opened UTG preflop and I 3bet 3x

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

I had this big response typed out but accidentally hit the back button on my keyboard and it's gone.

So now I'm a bit tilted.

Will pop in later to retype but leaving this in the meantime (my conclusion): flop sizing is way, way, way too big

Damn that is very unfortunate and no worries hoping to hear your feedback very soon

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

OK I have a few mins to play hookie at work:

It's understandable why you'd take this sizing OTF. After all, your range is smoking that of your opponents (you have a truly massive range advantage here) but your range being fairly narrow (which is should be facing an UTG open) means your opponents have the "advantage" in terms of number of draws (i.e. they have more, despite your overall EV in this spot being miles higher than theirs).

So it makes sense to go big for protection, right?

Big problem: while it's true you have a big chunk of your range that's OK potting the flop like {AA, KK, KK, AK, and arguably KQs}, you don't have enough hands to balance this with.

You likely only have AQ as a bluff on this flop. All other hands you'd wanna VPIP play much better vs UTG open as a flat than as a 3b. So I doubt your range is any wider than {99+, AQs+, AQo+} and I doubt it's good to be any wider, anyway.

And potting it with AQ is an awfully inefficient way to play the hand. You get just as many folds from 44-99 and likely TT too by betting, say 25%-33% pot as you do by potting it. It's no bargain to fold out all worse hands (which pot does) and only be continued against by better and by massive draws that actually have an equity advantage against AQ.

There's also the remaining chunk of your range, something I presume like {99, TT, AJ}, to contend with. Obviously these hands don't wanna go pot either.

So you're splitting your range here into pot=fat value and smaller=weaker value and bluffs. That makes you really easy to play against and is a much lower EV strategy than just betting 25%.

AQ wants to go 25% pot, your weaker value wants to go 25% pot (or check--but so few other combos in your range wanna check so it's tough to actually cobble together a checking range here), which means you have to go 25% pot with your fat value too.

That being said, if V's never fold a pair then exploitatively potting it might make sense. But in practice I don't think that works too often.

+1 to Eggs analysis.

Another aspect of this hand that bothers me - button and BB essentially flat a 3X 3-bet from MP over a UTG open. Without that, UTG likely folds HU as KJs is really bad HU OOP. I'd need to see stack sizes of button and BB but I rarely see this many cold calls.

What was the buy-in?

Brilliant response and understood that fine. Well said and have noted all that info.
I agree I bet way to large otf... That's my leak. I need to get 25% 30% otf and can I even check back the turn or is my hand just way to strong because if I do that he is for sure donk betting the river.
Thank you for your response or really means a lot

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Eggs are you saying to bet 25% of pot on the flop so ~ 12.5K?

(btw thanks for responding to the other thread and leading me here) I still don't understand gto and denying equity with 12.5K bet here multiway, if that's what I'm reading you to say. Can you elaborate? Seems pretty wet to me.

Eggs provided great analysis and echoes my feelings about the flop sizing and why I don't like it

As such just have one small, more general thing to add--generally speaking, in multiway pots, equities will be far more diffuse than, say, in a MP vs. BB defend HU pot (where equities will far more often be super concentrated, either for MP or for BB, depending on the particular board).

As such, smaller betsizings make a lot of sense in multiway pots, since equities are more spread out--we're seeking to "shore up equity" more with our range, not polarize.

Now, this pot was 3b preflop and still ended up going 4 ways, so I haven't done much thought until now about just how much the above concept applies here, but one would imagine the same general principles apply. My "gut reaction" when I read the flop sizing was certainly "too big"

Why shove the river? Your last chips are worth far too much to do this. Even if Villain is calling KQs he can also have KJs and most importantly JJ, so 2 combos that you beat, and at least 4 you lose to. Villain would have to be calling all KQ pre, and calling the river too for your bet to be good.