Quote:
Originally Posted by YiuWen
I am also curious what calculations you did to find that 88s are -EV @ 17BB in any position, especially with no VPIP beforehand. What would you do with 99 UTG w/ 17BB?
I would suggest looking into push fold charts, Jonathan Little has some solid charts online for free!
I'll point out that Little's charts online only go up to 15BB and they have TT+ as a push with no antes and 66+ or 88+ as a push with antes, depending on the size of the antes, at 15BB.
This suggests that he thinks this is either slightly correct or slightly wrong to shove with 88 from UTG at 17BB deep if there are antes and definitely wrong if there are no antes. Also, perhaps, shove if it is BB ante and don't if it is not.
I might just shove (or possibly fold) if I am at a table full of strong players, since I would likely be one of the worst players at the table, but either limp or min-raise if I am at a table full of weak players. Given the right sort of players in late position, I would definitely consider a limp/reraise line.
Basically, it seems like a borderline situation where it's probably not horrible to shove and not horrible to do something else, so the correct answer is sensitive to table conditions. I probably would be more likely to simply fold than shove here, but I don't see the grounds for criticizing someone who would do the opposite.