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Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot?

12-17-2017 , 05:33 AM
[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $15 Buy-in (40/80 blinds, 10 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 5,937 (74.2 bb)
Hero (BB): 5,335 (66.7 bb)
UTG+1: 6,433 (80.4 bb)
UTG+2: 4,960 (62 bb)
MP1: 9,627 (120.3 bb)
MP2: 3,452 (43.2 bb)
MP3: 5,820 (72.8 bb)
CO: 13,078 (163.5 bb)
BTN: 13,041 (163 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q Q
UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises to 160, MP1 folds, MP2 calls 160, MP3 folds, CO raises to 850, 2 folds, hero???

I put CO range [AA-QQ,AJo,KQo,AKs,A5s-A4s,T8s,97s], so QQ has very high equity against his range, so do you guy think call is a good option to keep his bluff range and exploit more profit from him during the postflop play?
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote
12-17-2017 , 10:16 AM
If villain is the kind of player who tends to c-bet a lot after making this kind of pre-flop raise, then I will mostly flat him here. On a favorable flop texture, the plan would be to check/raise the flop, thereby extracting another bet from him if he's on a steal/bluff before he folds, or being happy to play to the turn if he calls. If the flop falls with an Ace, I will sometmies lead out as a bluff, since it's easy to represent a big ace having called his pre-flop C-bet and since villain makes that bet without an ace often.
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote
12-17-2017 , 06:34 PM
Depends on Vs image stats is c betting/3 betting enough to make flatting a good option...I most likely at these stakes and with no info on V would flat. Against an a person who 3 bets alot I def think 4 betting would be most optimal IMO.
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote
12-17-2017 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinGChapman
If villain is the kind of player who tends to c-bet a lot after making this kind of pre-flop raise, then I will mostly flat him here. On a favorable flop texture, the plan would be to check/raise the flop, thereby extracting another bet from him if he's on a steal/bluff before he folds, or being happy to play to the turn if he calls. If the flop falls with an Ace, I will sometmies lead out as a bluff, since it's easy to represent a big ace having called his pre-flop C-bet and since villain makes that bet without an ace often.
What is the proper bet sizing when flop falls Ace and we lead out?
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote
12-17-2017 , 11:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FU_UIGEA
Depends on Vs image stats is c betting/3 betting enough to make flatting a good option...I most likely at these stakes and with no info on V would flat. Against an a person who 3 bets alot I def think 4 betting would be most optimal IMO.
I flatted, unluck, flop came Ace and King, I had to fold when VS bet 2/3 of the pot
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote
12-18-2017 , 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhouxx123
What is the proper bet sizing when flop falls Ace and we lead out?
Don't, this idea is ridiculous if we have QQ. We're targetting exactly one hand (KK) as he's never folding Ax and if he does over multiple streets, we're blocking the AQ which is the hand I guess we'd be targetting? Plus if villain can handread, he realises we probably don't have an ace we want to lead (AK jams pre, AQ is trying to be careful, AJ- folds pre).

Maybe you can flat some hands pre here, but QQ is just about the last hand I'd do it with. I'd ship and pick up the 1300 chips out there, maybe have 40% vs [KK+/AK] and who knows what else he calls with like TT-JJ, AQ, or ATs (it's a 15$ buyin after all) that'll push us easily over 50% equity.
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote
12-19-2017 , 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soepgroente
Don't, this idea is ridiculous if we have QQ. We're targetting exactly one hand (KK) as he's never folding Ax and if he does over multiple streets, we're blocking the AQ which is the hand I guess we'd be targetting? Plus if villain can handread, he realises we probably don't have an ace we want to lead (AK jams pre, AQ is trying to be careful, AJ- folds pre).
I understand the point here, but I disagree that it's ridiculous.

First, I said sometimes -- not always. You have to mix it up sometimes. On Ace-high board, if we check and villain is holding a middle pocket pair or suited broadway cards (which would make sense given extra-high three-bet pre), we let villain either c-bet us on ace-high board and make us decide whether to call in vulnerable spot out of position or else three-bet and risk even more chips to find out if he's bluffing. Or, villain can check back and get a free turn on a board where villain might be drawing.

If we lead out and get a call or raise, then villain either has an ace (or better) or has a tremendous ability to bluff as our range includes a lot of big aces and he's taking a huge risk. We probably fold, or if we don't we're setting ourselves up for a bad loss.

And I disagree that AJ folds pre in this spot and that AK always four-bets pre. Depends on reads, of course, but I've seen plenty of AKo hands just flat the big three-bet pre in this spot, and plenty of calls from AJ, so while many players would play it differently, villain can't normally put us on "no ace" when we flat pre.

As for bet size, I would put out between 1/3 and 1/2 pot - but it's whatever you would bet if you had the Ace.
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote
12-19-2017 , 08:20 AM
You don't have to make bad plays to mix it up, just like you don't have to raise 73s utg a certain % of the time to mix it up. You can shape your flatrange pre in a way that you'll have mostly Ax and QQ is one of your few bluffs, but that way you're leaving other holes in your game.
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote
12-20-2017 , 11:39 AM
I think 4-betting QQ makes way more sense, we're multiway and the value of QQ goes down dramatically if we flat and allow the other players ahead to call. Worst case is that we're up against someone with JJ+/AK and we're not dead to rights if that happens.

I think we have worse pairs and suited connectors in our range that we can have as flats if we so desire, and if we want to call a 3-bet occasionally with a premium hand do it with AA. But in this situation I'm not convinced we want any flats.
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote
12-20-2017 , 04:09 PM
I'm always looking to plug holes.

So, is the group wisdom that we would always 4-bet here with QQ from SB or BB when there are other players behind us left to act and who might call if we call? If so, is the right size about 2000 (which represents 40% of our stack), and are we always calling a 5-bet re-shove or are we folding?

Secondary question would be whether the answer is the same if there is only one limper or min-raiser left to act and we're pretty comfortable that he's going to fold, leaving us head's up if we flat the 3-bet?
Should I 4 bet QQ in this spot? Quote

      
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