$110 Donkument. 19 left, pays 17, I have 16K with blinds 2K/4K/4K BB Ante. I'm the shortest stack in the room. There is 1 sub 30K stack and 1 sub 40K stack at my table. We are six handed.

Have been trying to get it in, someone has raised ahead of me every hand I had anything reasonable to shove.

I'm in UTG now with Jd5d and shove. With the BB coming and the fact I'll need to put in 8K of my withered stack the next hand, is this terrible? My thinking is that we are 6 handed and maybe I have a shot at everyone folding before my stack is so small I can't get folds.

not terrible at all

had to do it

I agree not terrible. If you don't then you are going in blind the next hand regardless of the action.

Is this a live tournament? People play so bad with short stacks in live tournaments (shoving and calling ranges). You have more fold equity than you think.

I just finished playing in several live tournaments priced higher than the $110 where the BB folded to shoves like this. I was stunned but apparently it happens.

I would just say "all-in" and hope that nobody realizes its for only 4 blinds.

Next hand you are BB and will be playing for 3 blinds and will basically have to call/shove with any 2 cards. At least this hand is suited.

Not sure if this is relevant but 3 betting with 12 or more blinds has some fold equity even when somebody raises first especially when that player has been raising frequently and you haven't. Not sure how you got down to 4 blinds but 3 bet "bluffs" with Ax and 15+ blinds especially from the SB or BTN can be effective and has decent potential all-in value especially because you have an A blocker and could be up against a hand like KQ.

The BB is getting about 1.8-1 with ante, so should fold some hands. You cannot tell it is bad without seeing the cards. Yeh, you will get folds live, but it might have been better to shove UTG the last round or whatever. "Harrington on Holdem" goes into shoving ATC repeatedly with like 6xBB, but it does not work quite as well these days.

Your choices are:
1) Shove 4x here with J5dd and have a bit of fold equity
2) Play your next hand, whatever it is, for stacks with no fold equity

1 is clearly significantly better

This is actually a more interesting spot than it appears at first glance.

From a pure chip-EV perspective, Jd5d from UTG 6-handed is actually a fold at 4BB, even with a fairly sizable ante. (although it is pretty close to a shove, as Jd7d is a shove) Now mix in the fact that in theory, we're supposed to be tighter when we're on the bubble, and you can argue that this is a bad shove.

However, I think we have some things going for us - as mentioned above, players at these stakes do a terrible job of calling shoves correctly, even tiny shoves like these. So we're going to get way more folds than we would normally. And players may also over adjust since they're on the bubble.

So I do like the shove on the condition that there aren't other equally small (or smaller) stacks at other tables. If there are two or more other very small stacks, there might be some benefit in trying to outlast those players. If we're the shortest stack in the room, for the reasons I mentioned above shoving is likely the correct play.

The software you are running does not consider that you usually are going to have to stack off in the BB next hand. It is a really easy push in practice at this stakes live.

I've never been quite comfortable with the math here. Yes, if we fold here, and are forced all in, we are less likely to survive the next 2 hands. But, if we do survive the next 2 hands, were will have paid the BB, whereas if we shove UTG, we will be still have to pay the BB/BBa the next hand.

Yeh, I agree with you on that. However, this is still an easy shove at a real life live table.

Technically loose if people are calling correctly, but in reality in donkaments these clowns call wayyy too tight to short shoves and it’ll get through a lot. Way more often than it should. So shove