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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 03-08-2019, 08:25 PM   #26
wowsooooted
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Re: SB v BB deep in $320

Usually I tend to make my standard raise 3 - 4x here vs sb limp and go from there.

Shoving is not that great because we dont get called by worse hands.. doubt he limp calls off KQ,KJ, they proly raise or shove the first time, Ax too tho we block that.
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:43 PM   #27
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Re: SB v BB deep in $320

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Originally Posted by wowsooooted View Post
Usually I tend to make my standard raise 3 - 4x here vs sb limp and go from there.
So raise/calling or raise/folding?
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:06 PM   #28
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Re: SB v BB deep in $320

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Will reply more later but for now I don't want to forget--quick thoughts:

1. So very bizarre to me that AA for the SB is a pure r400, and that the limping rate goes up as we descend from KK down to 66. It doesn't seem to make much sense to me. An important followup Q: does PIO allow for SB to limp AA and then merely flat a BB raise? This is something I've done with AA in the SB vs. aggro opponents.

2. The BB strat of raising with the trashiest hands makes sense, and I'm glad to see something I do in game be validated with PIO--I typically make it 3.5x or so with really bad hands in the BB vs. a SB limp, figuring that that approach has to outperform checking, but was always wondering in the back of my mind if I was secretly spewing.

3. PIO seems to advocate raise/calling from the BB with hands like KTo or QJs, but I can't say that vs. population I feel particularly great about implementing this, as I think their limp/jam range is far from correct. I would typically check these back or raise/fold in game. Tough spot in game for sure.
1. I noticed that too and I think it's pretty amazing actually. There's definitely a notion of internal consistency there, no? Raise the tippy-top of our range and mix with less, mixing limp more and more the weaker we get.

And then eventually we reach an inflection point starting at 55--pairs 22-55 are so weak they need as much protection as possible AND V still calls with worse such that jamming 22-55 is unilaterally higher EV.

This internal consistency is one of several aspects of the results that make me feel pretty confident they've converged sufficiently.

The strat is the strat. If you're limping AA in this spot you're either leaking, or being exploitative (perhaps you think V underdefends vs opens but somehow overraises vs limps, or something like that). In the process, you're opening yourself up to exploitation vs a GTO villain (you aren't capturing enough EV vs that type of V if you limp AA)

2. Yeah, it's another I think really amazing result, how we're concentrating our bluffs in that (if the strat chart we're a Cartesian plane) 3rd quadrant and only in that quadrant. This is what polarization visually looks like--it concerns raising 2nd and 3rd quadrant hands (and of course pairs and Ax bc those are too strong not to raise generally)

3. Here's the SB response to an open. You can compare that to a real-life strat you expect V to play however you like, and then figure out whether it makes sense to r/c in BB vs a limp w/ KTo, QJs, etc in practice. If V isn't l/j, say, K6s, then BB r/c w/ KTo may not be viable--but your V is deviating wildly from GTO in that case and is highly exploitable in other ways.


Last edited by EggsMcBluffin; 03-08-2019 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 03-08-2019, 09:17 PM   #29
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Re: SB v BB deep in $320

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@eggs - what are the specs on your rented PIO server ?
10-core Intel Xeon E5 2630v4

256 gigs RAM

I thought I was getting 20 cores but alas. I guess I got gypped.

In all seriousness, it's been the best allocation of bankroll I could possibly muster (outside of some MTTs, of course)

I use remote desktop to access it so it's like having a computer on my computer. I couldn't believe how easy it was to get setup and get PIO installed on it and get up and running.

Guys, I'm running a 30bb tree (been doing so since this AM) and the cool thing about that is we're deep enough to include 3bet bluffing nodes that aren't all-in. I'll post the tree tomorrow when it's ready

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Old 03-09-2019, 01:16 AM   #30
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Re: SB v BB deep in $320

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Originally Posted by angel zera View Post
So raise/calling or raise/folding?
My range can have both and usually il make my desicion in game depending on how I felt about a bunch of factors most noteably on what sb was up to.

We have no reads in game but this is late in a $320 there will be better players around, with his stack id say we definately can't rule out limp jam from like JTs+,22+ and all Axs and most Axo. It does depend however on how many of these he decides to raise himself.

A6s has 46% vs his top 28% and we block better aces AA,66 so its super close.. usually I prefer to err on the side of caution when im readless but sometimes I can be temped to take a risk if I thought that was best depending on stacks, positions, reads on other players etc.

You want to take lines that benefit your range overall.. raising here is good coz we can just snap off top 10% and be done with it, you range tends to always wanting the option raise calling here, because it also a good threat and deterent for your opponents limp jam range too
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Old 03-09-2019, 07:49 PM   #31
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Re: SB v BB deep in $320

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Originally Posted by EggsMcBluffin View Post
10-core Intel Xeon E5 2630v4

256 gigs RAM

I thought I was getting 20 cores but alas. I guess I got gypped.

In all seriousness, it's been the best allocation of bankroll I could possibly muster (outside of some MTTs, of course)

I use remote desktop to access it so it's like having a computer on my computer. I couldn't believe how easy it was to get setup and get PIO installed on it and get up and running.
i use RDP every day, sounds easy. i'll hunt around for some prices. cheers
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:05 AM   #32
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Re: SB v BB deep in $320

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Originally Posted by EggsMcBluffin View Post
1. The strat is the strat. If you're limping AA in this spot you're either leaking, or being exploitative (perhaps you think V underdefends vs opens but somehow overraises vs limps, or something like that). In the process, you're opening yourself up to exploitation vs a GTO villain (you aren't capturing enough EV vs that type of V if you limp AA)

2. Yeah, it's another I think really amazing result, how we're concentrating our bluffs in that (if the strat chart we're a Cartesian plane) 3rd quadrant and only in that quadrant. This is what polarization visually looks like--it concerns raising 2nd and 3rd quadrant hands (and of course pairs and Ax bc those are too strong not to raise generally)
1. Yeah, very interesting stuff. Makes sense, too. It might seem sexy to our human selves to limp trap with AA, but if it's just not as high an EV as playing it simple and raising, then it isn't the best option.

2. Yep. Though I must admit, I'm not sufficiently mixing in these spots and tend to just pure raise the trash in certain situations at this depth vs. some villains, and far less often vs. others--there's some players who I don't think limp nearly as wide as they should be, and so their limp range is far stronger than it should be--this, of course, is exploitable in other ways.

Gotta say, these particular sim spots are some of the most useful I've ever seen run. SB v BB at this depth is such a weird spot, and although I like to think my strategy was somewhat well constructed, it's nice to see the formalized version.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:12 AM   #33
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Re: SB v BB deep in $320

Jamming hands like A2-A8s seems totally reasonable here considering how well they do when called plus the fact that you are only getting called such a small percentage of the time ensures you are making plenty of money by doing so. As you get deeper in a tournament being able to pick up pots with out showdown becomes that much more important. Like what are going to with your small pocket pairs here? Surely we canít check those back and I can tell you Iím not raise calling them.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:58 AM   #34
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Re: SB v BB deep in $320

Canít seem to edit the above reply but wanted to make clear that you arenít doing well when called rather you will always have reasonable equity the times you are.
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