Hi everyone, early stages of a mtt effective stacks 200bb deep. folded to mp who limps, co folds btn limps your in the small blind, Just wondering what would be a good calling/raising range. This is a spot i find myself in frequently, i look down at something like 103o and think to myself well I could flop a monster, but usually I end up bleeding chips after catching a little bit of the flop. I tried attaching some pics from flopzilla but didnt work, Just wondering what you might consider a good calling/raising range, thank you

I would fold true garbage like T3o, since what are you really hoping to flop? I know we have good immediate odds, but we are OOP and aren't going to flop anything good the huge huge majority of the time. I would complete any suited cards and any connected/one gap cards for sure.

I would raise hands that can flop big and obviously my big value hands. So raising 99+, AK, AQ for value, and to balance that I would be raising smaller pairs, suited aces, and hands like JTs, 98s a good amount. If we were shallower, raising the pairs and suited connector and aces hands is less valuable since it is easier to get stacks in the shorter that we are, and the more painful raising and then check/folding is.

It also depends on the limpers and the BB. If the BB is very aggro, we have to tighten up our completion range since he may raise quite a bit. If the limpers are tricky, we have to tighten up our raise range, since they may be trapping. If the limpers are super loose, we can widen our "raise for value" range.

I agree with Black Aces in terms of hands to play. I would throw in any 2 suited cards as well and all one gapers bigger than 6.

I think it is best to avoid a lot of the marginal spots that will be difficult to play OOP post flop especially against better players.

When you play a pot then make it 3x - 3.5x instead of the standard 2x - 2.5x.

The earlier in a tournament, the more likely I am to limp with hands that I would raise with later in the tournament. With deep stacks and no reads, there is a bit of a feeling out process that I go through. Black Aces is correct about having to tighten up if the BB is very aggro, but you are probably going to have to limp a few times in the SB before you find out how aggro he is in this spot. Also, if I have a limpy table, I like keeping them in a passive mood preflop. I think I have an edge when there is not much preflop raising going on.

I'd probably be a bit tighter than Black Aces and fold a hand like T3s. You should probably tighten up and not limp with hands like J5s if you have a tendency to put in too much money with a second-best top pair hand. The better you play post-flop, the wider of a range you can play and you need to be honest with yourself about what your relative skill level is.

Thanks for the replies, sum great info, will give me a better base to work of rather than just randomly calling with weak hands. Thanks all

Personally I will call with any two cards that aren't truly awful. I will fold 72o,83o,94o etc. But I will probably call with Tx. I will also call with any two suited cards. You never know when you will flop a monster.

I was in the Senior WSOP with about 2,500 in chips (half of starting stack). Blinds were 100/200 or so. 3 limpers and I look down at T7o. I limp. Flop is T72. I lead out (donk) and get raised to about 1,100 (seriously) and I shove and win vs KT (who called).

I don't care that sometimes we have to fold to BB raise.

Just stop bleeding chips when you hit one pair with a terrible kicker. I will almost always check vs multiple limpers on a flop when I hit middle or bottom pair. I will fold based on live experience with bettors. Some people always have it. Some bluff a lot.

And I will lead out most turns if the flop checks through with or without a pair. SB has positional advantage in those cases (first to bluff after the field shows weakness).

As for raising, I prefer to raise with PP's. I will sometimes raise with AK and suited broadways as well for some balance. But the raise needs to be substantial enough to get most or all people to fold.

What kind of limping range they have where we can’t go at least AT+ KJ+ 88+ for value. I wouldn’t have many bluffs here at all since playing vs suspected fish so I’m mostly calling my small Axs, PPs, SCs and such along with weaker hands I wish to limp with. I’m overfolding vs BBs raising range but I think it’s fine given the odds we are getting.

I agree that hands like ATo or KJo are ahead of the limp ranges. If we raise small, we are playing multiway pot OOP 200bb with hands that can't really make monster hands. I would prefer to play a small pot in that situation. And the money in the pot isn't valuable enough to our stack to raise large enough to fold everyone out with those hands either.

For the suited aces etc I am not raising to bluff, I am raising because me having initiative and the pot being larger makes it easier to get lots of money in when we make sets, straights, and flushes.

Imagine we have 66, we have 3 opponents, we flop a set and bet 1/2 pot every street. We get two flop calls, and one on turn and river.

Without a raise pre we are betting 2bb into 4 on flop, 5 into 10 on turn, 10 into 20 on river for a 40bb pot.

With a 4x raise pre, we are betting 8 into 16 on flop, 20 into 40 on turn and 40 into 80 on river for 160bb pot. We profit 88bb as opposed to 23bb when we didn't raise.

I agree that hands like ATo or KJo are ahead of the limp ranges. If we raise small, we are playing multiway pot OOP 200bb with hands that can't really make monster hands. I would prefer to play a small pot in that situation. And the money in the pot isn't valuable enough to our stack to raise large enough to fold everyone out with those hands either.

For the suited aces etc I am not raising to bluff, I am raising because me having initiative and the pot being larger makes it easier to get lots of money in when we make sets, straights, and flushes.

Imagine we have 66, we have 3 opponents, we flop a set and bet 1/2 pot every street. We get two flop calls, and one on turn and river.

Without a raise pre we are betting 2bb into 4 on flop, 5 into 10 on turn, 10 into 20 on river for a 40bb pot.

With a 4x raise pre, we are betting 8 into 16 on flop, 20 into 40 on turn and 40 into 80 on river for 160bb pot. We profit 88bb as opposed to 23bb when we didn't raise.

Somewhere, in the mystical land of betsizing, there exists a betsize that is likely to get us hu/folds and I’d argue it somewhere from 5 to 8 BBs.

Playing just vs the top of their ranges isn’t really a problem since they are so capped that we still have good equity when they call. We can also manipulate our betsize super exploitably postflop. Sure, parts of our range aren’t thrilled when they both call but its not like it’s a disaster either since, well, they are fishes and they aren’t likely to make our life too hard postflop. They also have a plethora of worse Tx-Ax in their calling ranges.

Regarding betsize, betting 50% is pretty big mistake with our value hands that want to get max value. Obv. we get more money in when the pot is bigger but we are also having to play post often multiway when raising 4x and hands like 66 don’t love that. I know that was just an example but I wanted to comment on it regardless. There are times when we can’t get 200bb in post but it is ok in my opinion. That being said, I think raising small PPs and such can be ok too. Axs performs just fine no matter what range we put them in. I’m fine with raising them too but checking seems more natural for me here.

If villains are competent I’d rather raise small Axs since they aren’t limp/calling with hands like A8o and such that I assume fish has here a ton. Then we can also use our Axs for 4bets vs bb3bet and limp/raises.