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Mid-High Stakes MTT Discussion and analysis of mid-high stakes MTT strategy

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Old 05-05-2018, 07:12 PM   #1
Nut Nut
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Question about a rule

Very messy hand at the Venetian today.

Blinds are 150/300 and 5 limpers to the button / chip leader. He raises to 1,500 and gets 4 callers.

Flop is Js7s3d

Very inexperienced woman in the HJ leads out for 4K. Button raises to 16K. Folds back to woman who calls leaving only 5K behind.

Now it starts getting weird.

Button mistakenly exposes his hand thinking the woman is all in and the woman also exposes her hand.

The button shows JJ for top set and the woman shows JTo with no spades. She's a 65:1 underdog to win the hand.

The floor is called and they instruct the dealer to deal the turn card. The turn card is a K and the woman is drawing dead.

In spite of the fact that the entire table knows that she is drawing dead, she decides to lead out with her final 5K in chips and leaves. She is basically gifting the last of her stack to the chip leader. The floor person is still there and I complain that this is akin to collusion. He says he can't stop her from doing this. They rationalize that she may have misread her hand and thought she could still win.

This is a strange one. Has anyone ever encountered this before?
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:41 PM   #2
Veganzombies
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Re: Question about a rule

She was pot committed. I don't think it's collusion if she's just stupid.
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Old 05-06-2018, 05:25 AM   #3
Street Urchin
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Re: Question about a rule

Probably thought she would hit another Jack
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Old 05-06-2018, 12:56 PM   #4
PhatPots
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Re: Question about a rule

LOL, this is funny.
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:46 PM   #5
Beachman42
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Re: Question about a rule

I would actually consider this if the event was still in re-buy period. The sooner I'm reseated, the sooner I'd forget my bone-headed pf call with JTo . . .
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Old 05-08-2018, 05:35 PM   #6
poloplaya1414
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Re: Question about a rule

Weird spot. I would be in favor of ruling it a chip dump and forcing the 5K to remain in play, getting blinded out.
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Old 05-08-2018, 10:14 PM   #7
JSkelts
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Re: Question about a rule

If she clearly understands she cant win the hand but still calls then yeah its chip dumping.
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Old 05-09-2018, 02:22 AM   #8
poloplaya1414
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Re: Question about a rule

^^Right.

And the fact that she walks away makes it fairly unambiguous to me that she knew she had lost.
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Old 05-10-2018, 09:30 PM   #9
oldsilver
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Re: Question about a rule

poker is not dead

and it's not collusion, it's her saying 'i'm useless at this game and don't want to play any more'
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Old 05-11-2018, 04:14 AM   #10
osefiwin
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Re: Question about a rule

She could win actually, other dude might fold. And she has a great price for her bluff so it doesn't need to work that often. She's a genius, we're the plebs.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:13 AM   #11
Mr Rick
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Re: Question about a rule

A variation of this comes up occasionally. I have seen many players, who have given up (for whatever reason), just repeatedly shove. Though this is mostly pre-flop and without knowledge of opponents' hands. Still they don't want to win, so you know they are playing ATC.

It pays to understand why they have given up. One guy had a family barbecue to attend and so I refused to chop as we got to the end of the tourney knowing he would shove and/or call lightly. We ended up HU and he called off all of his chips on our first hand.

In this case I might rule that chips can't go to the other player because this would be the very definition of chip dumping. I would probably just remove the chips from the table (because the woman has forfeited her right to continue in the tourney).
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:11 PM   #12
PhatPots
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Re: Question about a rule

IMO this is not chip dumping.

I think if she knew the other player and there was an agreement that he can have her last 5K chips then that would be chip dumping.

The way it is described to me, it sounds like she didn't know any better.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:18 PM   #13
HawkesDave
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Re: Question about a rule

Whether it's intentional chip dumping or not is irrelevant. You can't leave these things up for interpretation once she does this while drawing dead. The chips should have been removed from play and it should be enforced as chip dumping.

It's the same thing as checking the nuts when you're last to act. Whether you did it on purpose or not is irrelevant. You can't say, "Oops, I didn't re-check my hand and I thought I had XXXXX." Even if the other player in the hand with you shows he only has 7-high and wouldn't call even a minimum bet, you still have to bet the nuts or take a penalty.

We know people will toss chips away when they want to re-buy/re-enter, but tossing your chips to another player when you have a 0% chance to win is a bit different than what we're all used to seeing when it comes to this scenario.
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Old 05-16-2018, 11:46 PM   #14
oldsilver
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Re: Question about a rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Rick View Post
It pays to understand why they have given up. One guy had a family barbecue to attend and so I refused to chop as we got to the end of the tourney knowing he would shove and/or call lightly. We ended up HU and he called off all of his chips on our first hand.
.
LOL

Taking 5 mins to act on every decision while talking about your fav ribeye was a bit harsh though
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