using HRC calculations without knowing stack sizes of all the players at the table is preposterous.

yeah we dont know, i pressumed 7-9 so I've put 8 in calc . 1 up and down wont change it much, maybe for 0.05 or less, and us being lowest or 2nd lowest stack is realistic and again it won't change calc too much.

talking about hrc calculations while not being aware how it works and that with 8bb stack and icm not such big of an factor it won't change drasticly either way is preposterous. stop needling me son, i hope we worked out what we had.


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if players behind are calling our shove tigther than nash, which is reality ( i wasn't changing their calling nash ranges ), that makes our shove more profitable.

if opener is opening somewhat tighter obv edge with ATs is lil bit smaller but not by much and it's still a jam. again if we think we have any FE which you wont have vs any player that is close to decent then this is printing.

poker is a game of incomplete information. we can argue if he's opening 10 12 or 16 but if he's opening 10% ATs is still a +. i've put more because of in live tournaments any notnit type of player usually openes somewhat wider and we can see random hand like A8o / KTo or smt like that pretty often.

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and again about 0.3bb being small edge, edge is related to the stacksize. you won't take 0.3bb with your 25bb stack in a soft field, but with 8bb your hands are tied since 1)blinds might change 2)WINTER IS COMMING ( blinds ) and they'll eat like 1/4+ of our stack.

Lol, that's ludicrous. Modifying the stack size even to 1 big blind may significantly shift push/fold ranges. You probably never used HRC properly, dude, sorry.

8 Players

please stop trying to get back at me for no apparent reason. i'm not posting here because I wanna go back and forth with randoms, i'm posting because in the past i've learned a lot from this subforum and some posters and I would like to give back some of it now that i'm winning in tournaments for last 3 years. don't want to sound rude or egoistic or anything but before playing mtts and before you ever heard for poker I was playing sngs and did insane number of simulations with shortstacks.

you actually made me pull out my hm2 printscreen wrt stacksizes just to illustrate the point http://prntscr.com/kykc68 (edit obv not biggest sample ever with those stacksizes)

i was kind of rude in my first post in some thread were you were saying some incredible nonsense about 3betting ranges but with nicest possible intentions and it was X months ago and you're still salty about it. this speaks more about you than about me. wasn't I on your block list ? i would like to get back on it and you can keep folding ATs here for all I care.

I think it's interesting, the debate in this thread. For me my initial though was snap jam. I still think shoving is the correct play, but it is interesting to see those who are advocating differently. I guess given the debate, it's a close spot.

I think the factor that tilts it for me is 2 things
1. The UTG can be opening wider.
2. We lose a just under 1/3 of our stack in a few hands. Better to take a shot now and build up a stack.

cizixap is an idiot. carry on

In short, this spot is very likely a shove, but close enough that shoving or folding are both within the bounds of reasonable play. If folding here is an error, it probably isn't a huge one.