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PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions

05-15-2019 , 04:09 AM
Hi,

1st spot:

ACR 55$ 8k
300/600 ante 60 full ring

V1: utg 25bb rfi 2.2x 15/18 100hands
V2: co 30bb 3b to 4500 (not a single 3b yet over 50 hands)
Hero: btn 40bb w/ 1010 flats the 3b
V1: 4b jam
V2: snapp rejam
Hero:?

What is the optimal play here? Should I have 3b gii pre myself? I know the sample size is lolaments confirmed but still, those two Vs were really on the tight side and not aggro at all. I figured I was at best flipping vs one of those two while probably dominated by the other one regarding their ranges.
Is that reasoning too nitty?
Is 1010 a mandatory 4b gii in that precise spot or was the btn cold call standard? And if I cold call, isn't it in order to leave me some room to manoeuver and to readjust pre? Or, once I call called I ve to go w/ it because pot odds and sht and the fact that I ll be sometimes (rare times?) up against AQ and AK?

Second hand:

ACR 33$ 5k 6max
500/1k ante 100

V1: btn 18bb rfi 2.5x (22/14 over 200hands)
V2: sb 60bb 3b jam (12% 3b over 150 hands)
Hero: bb w/ 77 ?

Standard fold? Standard rejam? I don't know if I am too nitty in those spots or if it is a mandatory fold.
It felt pretty uncertain afterward and couldn't find a clear cut answer.

Anyway, thank you for your time.
Appreciate your input

Cheers
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-15-2019 , 08:02 AM
#1
with V1 AQo+/77+ and V2 AQo+/99+ (considering their tight stats and your Cold call, i doubt they shove with AJ/AT/KQ or low PP) you have ~ 30% Equity
you have invested 7.5bb and Need 22.5bb more to win 86.5bb giving us ~26%

if my Maths is Right, the call seems fine even with a tight range.

even with JJ+/AQo+ we have 28% Equity

but if you consider Cold calling here instead of 4b, you might also consider folding here because at least 1 should have us dominated


#2
depends on your stack. with less than 15bb i call.
ignoring V1 (84bb side pot if we call) against a 12% 3bet range from V2 (although he might open wider vs Button) we have 44% Equity.
if we give him 20% shoving range and Any suited A and any PP, we have ~53%
if you have a Deep stack like him i would fold and call with 99+
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-15-2019 , 11:37 AM
readless folding pre both times without VPIPing

H1 4b allin against someone I know gets OOL and never folds AK

H2 never calling, ever
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-16-2019 , 07:54 AM
Yeah hand 1 I feel great about not VPIPing. Your hand is just too well defined after flatting for you to be able to make money, everybody knows you have TT-JJ or AQ/99 if you're loosey-goosey.
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-17-2019 , 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xVeritas
#1
with V1 AQo+/77+ and V2 AQo+/99+ (considering their tight stats and your Cold call, i doubt they shove with AJ/AT/KQ or low PP) you have ~ 30% Equity
you have invested 7.5bb and Need 22.5bb more to win 86.5bb giving us ~26%

if my Maths is Right, the call seems fine even with a tight range.

even with JJ+/AQo+ we have 28% Equity

Your math is right, we need roughly 26% to make it a correct call but not sure that we want to go w/ that gto approach vs weaker players who are far from playing a Nash equilibrium. I guess this is why I ended up going for the exploitative approach vs two nitty players -> cold call 3b - call a 4b jam from rfi (V1) if V2 doesn't reshove. But V2 did reshove and I folded

but if you consider Cold calling here instead of 4b, you might also consider folding here because at least 1 should have us dominated

Yes, that is precisely why I opted to fold eventhough I wasn't sure it was the right and optimal play -> would a solver give me a defined answer?



#2
depends on your stack. with less than 15bb i call.
ignoring V1 (84bb side pot if we call) against a 12% 3bet range from V2 (although he might open wider vs Button) we have 44% Equity.
if we give him 20% shoving range and Any suited A and any PP, we have ~53%
if you have a Deep stack like him i would fold and call with 99+
thx tho
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-17-2019 , 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by EggsMcBluffin
readless folding pre both times without VPIPing

H1 4b allin against someone I know gets OOL and never folds AK

H2 never calling, ever
H1: so you mean you are open folding 1010's otb vs utg rfi and lp 3b?

H2: yep
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-17-2019 , 08:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bearer
Yeah hand 1 I feel great about not VPIPing. Your hand is just too well defined after flatting for you to be able to make money, everybody knows you have TT-JJ or AQ/99 if you're loosey-goosey.
Indeed, but let's say I did not cold call the 3b and action is on me, do you ever just 4b gii?
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-17-2019 , 08:29 AM
If the 3bettor has a tendency to get OOL we can consider 4b/GII

But otherwise I'm def folding, our VPIP doesn't need to be more 3.5% in a spot where pop tendency is for 's to be <=5%

AK makes for a much, much better light 4b/GII, and even AQs has about the same equity vs V's likely GII range than TT with the added benefit of having blockers.

Even if V stacks off 99+, AQs+, AKo (which is pretty wide IMO) TT are in pretty bad shape.

And we still have the uncapped opener to contend with.
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-17-2019 , 08:59 AM
Easy fold in both situations.
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-18-2019 , 12:27 AM
#1: I think we need to be at least JJ+,AK in order to have a desicion to vpip here imo, we can fold everything else and feel pretty good about it. The fact that we don't close the action and OR 4b at some freq has to be considered also if we decide to flat. I think we need to ask ourselves 'do we have a 4b bluff range here?' if the answer is no then I might go ahead and flat all combos of JJ+,AK as to not risk being too face up, esp when we don't close.

#2: Need to know our stacksize here but id say we need to be at least 88+,KQ+ in order to have a desicion but id be more ok with 99+,AJ+. There is a big difference in 88 vs 77 for some reason, the former your at the top 6% of your range with the latter top 11%

Last edited by wowsooooted; 05-18-2019 at 12:50 AM.
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote
05-20-2019 , 12:01 PM
Hand 2: Am I blind? Do we still not know how many bb Hero had for this one?
PP vs 3b and 4b jam pre - two uncertain decisions Quote

      
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