This is exactly what I was thinking. Why bet and risk being raised and so losing a chance at hitting a miracle card to take a big pot. If indeed you are getting slowplayed then you should take advantage of it, not play into their hands.

Now lets hear about the river please

I would like to go back to your preflop call.

I really don't like it oop with so many people to act behind you. I just think that you will have better chances to put your money in.

You are making this call solely on your reads; your reads won't go away in the near future but your cards and position will improve. I would just fold this the first time around.

Steve

As I've only recently starting reading this forum regularly, I got through all 13 pages today...

Please, oh please tell me that you river the nuts.

Even if the SB has nothing he is likely to raise you if you bet. His reasoning of course will derive from the age old saying that "if a guy throws up and then check-raises the turn he must be strong"

Knowing this you must check through the turn and try to hit your miracle card

David Sklansky has been kind enough to chime in:

link

5* thread.

I was ready to move on, but I don't mind discussing it a bit more at all though.....


Well I think it depends upon your overall tourney strategy: Are you trying to take a few risks, accumulate chips, and bully the table or are you content to sit back and wait for good spots?

I think that I'm some what in between. And in this scenario I found a spot that would only cost me 2 BBs and I could be pretty sure where I stood after the flop. And my hand is so well disguised that this could be one of those hands that "win me the tournament." I do understand your viewpoint though.

YES!

This really has to be the best 2+2 thread I have ever read.
My sides actually hurt after reading it, of course it probably helps that I didn't have to wait over a year and in the last 11 months at least we have managed to expose one extra card, its a shame we havent yet clarified the action on that card.

Also I love the way Assani questions people suggesting the all in play on every street, isn't that always the correct play? You could push pre-flop against a guy who is probably slowplaying a monster and risk 17k to win 700... standard?

Seriously though, I think pre-flop is fine, this will be very +EV in the LR if a raise is pretty unlikely behind and this guy probably has a monster, is likely to let us catch and then stack him. Also I think playing soooooted 45 here will randomise our play enough and give us some additional value in playing the hand.

Flop check, Turn check. I would rather play this way and give myself an opportunity to stack EP on the river is we hit and he has a monster than risk being r/r, or putting ourself in a position where we have to bluff to win the pot on the river if we get called and miss. Obviously betting has the bonus of building the pot, which will make stacking our opponent easier without overbetting somewhere. Also I think it is very likely someone has an Ace here and we wont be getting rid of everyone and taking the pot. I could probably go on about this for a bit, although Im afraid it would be a waste of my time because we may never know the river and I might not get to discuss this hand further.

So to summarise, push all in on turn.

Check turn, hit the nuts on the river, stack two people.

Standard.

Flop call is painfully std. Check the flop.

I check the turn... if UTG was dealt pocket aces and a jack you're drawing dead.

Awesome thread btw. Waiting for next April 1st to say you checked, the river was a q of clubs, everyone checked it down and you won with high card 5 would be sweeeeeeet!!!

So what happened on the turn?

loooooool

Maybe he was feeling ill because he was up early that morning running oats.

Sorry, got caught up with something....

Ok, so I decide to check the turn. I don't want to be check raised and I have a draw, so I'll gladly see a free card if I can. And I do! The LP guy sits there and thinks for honestly a good minute, which was pretty strange to me. But he then checked.

River is another ace. The board is now: 2-7-J-A-A with no possible flushes.

The SB checks. BB presumably was still feeling sick from the tea. He mucked his hand and ran towards the nearest bathroom. UTG then checks yet again! No real reads on either of them at this point other than what I mentioned on the flop post.

So now its up to me. The guy who I thought was the most feared player has just mucked. Two opponents have checked the river including the UTG preflop raiser who I'm completely stumped about right now. LP quickly checked the flop, which made me think he had nothing but then he took forever to check on the turn. Theres 2000 in the pot. I have absolutely nothing.

Do you bluff here? If so, how often? And how much?

In case you don't feel like going back, here was my analysis of LP:

"Guy in LP is probably one of the weaker players at the table- not because he is reckless, but because he is very predictable. I talked to him before the tourney and found out that he had won his way in through a sattlite and had never played at anywhere near these stakes. And it showed. He was pretty much playing straightforward ABC poker. Pretty much you could believe his bets for what they represented, and you could push him off a marginal hand easily."


Thoughts?

I get a straw and a spoon and start eating the tea-dude's barf off the floor. If that doesn't get everyone to run away from the table and muck their hands, they must have a good hand, and I can check/fold. Otherwise, they all have crappy hands and I'll win the pot uncontested.

every time i see this thread bumped i cringe. pretty sure timex wasnt even born when it was started.

HAAHAHA I just read this for the first time and I assumed it`d be done by page 15. Guess not! btw Check. Why bet when you`re sure you`l lget pushed out by a re-raise. If the UTG checks the river and you missed bet anyways because he`d definitely bet the river for value if he wasn`t an idiot.

Indeed.



My own contributions make me confused, as I wasn't getting high then.

Jeez. The vomit must be fossilized by now. You're gonna need an icepick there, seke.

You do realize that the river has been posted, right?

timex?

Poisoning the most dangerous players tea was a killer idea, one I intend to implement into my general gameplan in live small-medium stakes MTT´s.

I agree with the preflop call and your postflop play this far, however I give it up on the river.

Because I have never played a high stakes MTT, my opinion is kinda irrelevant, just wanted to contribute to this truly awesome thread.

Wow, I want to thank nath for bumping this thread. I haven't seen this thread before, but now that I have, I feel my game has improved about 3x. I really appreciate it, all. Btw, I hadn't even heard about poker when this thread started.

Oh, I give up the river probably.

LOL....I definitely didn't poison any tea.

I suppose Ill take a serious crack at this thread although I feel like its a long extended joke and assani will jump out of my closet and say I been punked.

Pre I dont mind the call especially live where you likely have a much better feel for your opponents tendencies and can exploit them more easily than multitabling online.

flop Check seems like the best play by far. With the LP playre being the only left to act and the fact that you have labeled him weak tight, it seems that two good things can happen. 1.he checks behind and you get a chance to pick up a big draw on the turn. 2. He bets, everyone folds and you are presented a very good oppurtunity to bluff. Given your description of him, he would have reraised pre with QQ+ and maybe TT,JJ. He also is very likely to fold to your check raise on the turn with one pair such as AJ because he is a player that sees monsters and will decide you have an overpair or a set, he cant put you on a draw as there are no real draws on the board. He wont have two pair here given that those combinations are not hands that he would call pre with. This leaves your play working everytime unless he has 22, 77, or JJ, which overall is pretty unlikely. All this equals a profitable bluff oppurtunity.

Turn Seems like a terrible spot to bet. Just check and pray LP checks behind so you get a chance to hit that gutterball.

River game over, the pot isnt yours to win. Given the action a bet here will get called pretty light. For example UTG easily could have KK here. Betting here is spewwwww.